Update: *EXCELLENT* follow-up post from Wladimir in which he closes with the following,
I guess I need to thank Danny for so many great articles in such a short time. On the other hand, maybe instead I should remind him that denial-of-service attacks are illegal, even in the USA.
I’ll let you come to your own conclusions as to what that last sentence is referring to, though I will point out the fact that no matter who you are or what you believe justifies your actions, while blocking ads is not a crime, DOS attacks and other forms of Internet harrasment and vandalism most certainly are.
If you are guilty of any such crimes, please don’t turn yourself into the authorities (our prisons are filled with too many people who shouldn’t be there in the first place), but please stop, think, and then find ways to get over whatever it is you are hung up on in a peaceful manner.
Thanks! Our Internet will be a better place if you are willing to consider the above request.
Update: Wladimir Palant, the *WONDERFUL* developer behind the *WONDERFUL* tool AdBlock Plus recently left the following comment that I thought the rest of you would find interesting,
Thank you for this article, it is real fun to read it. Btw, the numbers you were asking about - I don’t have exact numbers either but it seems that no more than 2% of Firefox users have Adblock Plus installed. Which makes this campaign as ridiculous as ever.
Of course one can only assume that after all of this attention, the number of AdBlock Plus users have increased, but not so much as to drastically change the above percentage to the point where any of the legitimate sites on the net in which use ad revenue as their primary support are going to be noticeably effected. In fact if you think about it, it’s quite possible that, while ever-so-slightly, the reduced cost in bandwidth savings from those who have no interest in the ads being displayed will *more* that offset any potential loss in ad revenue.
In fact, if you *really* think about it, if all of the people in which had no desire nor willingness to click on the ads presented on your site were to install AdBlock Plus there’s an ever-so-slighter (is slighter a word? Probably not, but today let’s make it an honorary word just for fun ;-) possibility that the net result will be that of increasing your cash flow instead of decreasing it.
Okay, maybe thats a bit of stretch, but if nothing else it’s definitely something to consider. Of course if it turns out this theory were to actually hold any water you would have none other than Wladimir Palant to thank for your decreased cost structure and therefore increase in monthly revenue. And according to the following forum entry from about this time last year (which was in response to a question regarding Wladimir’s preferred charity), here’s how you can thank him for your new found cash cow, ;-)
I don’t favor any organization, feel free to choose the one you like
Edit: On the other hand… I do favor one organization: http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/donate.html
Seems reasonable to me. :D
Thanks, Wladimir!
Update: NOTE: For those of you who first read this update at the top of my last post, here it is again but this time at the top of the correct post! ;-)
—
I *LOVE* this comment from an article linked to from Yours Truly (a handle, not a self reference ;-),
Upon clicking the link to http://whyfirefoxisblocked.com/ I was met with a blank page. Interesting, I thought to myself. Let’s check this out in more detail… I bet they want me to wipe the dust off my Internet Explorer and access their site that way. Admit defeat? Go back to using Internet Explorer? Hardly. I simply opened a new tab in Firefox and went to Google. In the Google search field I entered the search term: site:whyfirefoxisblocked.com and then loaded the conveniently offered “cached” version of the page in question. It loaded smoothly in my AdBlockPlus-enabled copy of Firefox.
Absolutely *CLASSIC*! :D Thanks for the laugh, Yours Truly! Of course the real test would be to do the same for the site that you would have been redirected from, but two things,
1) Why waste any more of your valuable time.
2) The spirit of your hack is most certainly in place, which leads to one very important observation,
As mentioned already: Don’t Fight the Internet! There’s fame (the good kind) and fortune and good times for all in whom find ways to embrace the way the web *truly* works, not the way you think it should work. And if anything this is the point of the entire post.
Update: Based on the evidence that has been mounting up in my inbox and in comments I’ve done a quick research project and have come to the same obvious conclusion that everyone else has: That the content that follows that now has a strike through is more than likely a completely bogus attempt at justification. My apologies to each of you that were simply following Digg, Slashdot, Reddit, and other links for proliferating the garbage that is being fed from this guy.
Oh, and Danny, (AKA Jack Lewis),
You know what, nevermind. Why even waste any more of my time.
No wait, I’m sorry, I do have something else to say: You are not a victim of terrorism. You’re a victim of yourself.
Best of luck to you.
Oh, and one other thing: If you are bothered by the ads on this or any other site and would rather read this or any other *FREE* content without being bothered by ads you find annoying: I’ve heard that Ad Block Plus is pretty good. Of course you’ll need Firefox if you don’t already have it, but if you’re interested in my opinion, Firefox is as good as a browser gets.
Enjoy your ad free Firefox browsing days, everyone! The content here on O’ReillyNet is free to read however you might choose in whatever browser you might choose. If you choose to reprint it (beyond that which can be considered fair use) please do so under the terms of the Creative Commons by-nc-sa. Otherwise, do what you want. That’s your right.
And as always, thanks for reading! :D
Update: via a comment from Danny Carlton,
It’s my site, and if i want to control how people view it, I’m not letting a bunch of terrorists force me into changing that–and when you attempt to change someone’s behavior by threat of harm, you are a terrorist. The vile, obscene emails and phone calls, they attempts to shut down my server with DOS attacks and bandwidth eating programs, are all acts of terrorism, and it’s really interesting how many people who seem to get offended at being called “thieves” have no problems acting like terrorists.
Folks, I don’t care who you are or what it is you think you’re accomplishing, as far as I’m concerned anyone who involves themselves in this type of activity is absolutely as Danny specifies,
A criminal.
That’s absolutely shameful to do that kind of crap. You mind not be a criminal for blocking ads placed in the content you read, but you’re certainly a criminal if you take part in any of the crimes mentioned above.
Whoever is involved with the above: STOP!
It’s not funny. It’s not cool. And it certainly isn’t justified. It’s stupid. It’s illegal. And it needs to stop.
[Original Post]
Don’t fight the Internet! I promise, you’ll lose.
The Mozilla Foundation and its Commercial arm, the Mozilla Corporation, has allowed and endorsed Ad Block Plus, a plug-in that blocks advertisement on web sites and also prevents site owners from blocking people using it. Software that blocks all advertisement is an infringement of the rights of web site owners and developers. Numerous web sites exist in order to provide quality content in exchange for displaying ads. Accessing the content while blocking the ads, therefore would be no less than stealing. Millions of hard working people are being robbed of their time and effort by this type of software. Many site owners therefore install scripts that prevent people using ad blocking software from accessing their site. That is their right as the site owner to insist that the use of their resources accompanies the presence of the ads.
Here’s the thing: If people are going out of their way to block ads via Ad Block Plus do you honestly believe they represent a significant percentage of the +/-2.5% of the people who actually ever click on web ads in the first place? Wait, hold up, I think you answer your own question in the next paragraph down, but first let me take a quick moment to point something out,
While blanket ad blocking in general is still theft, the real problem is Ad Block Plus’s unwillingness to allow individual site owners the freedom to block people using their plug-in.
So here’s my question: If I pick-up a copy of The Stranger (if you live in Seattle) or my local City Weekly (if you don’t), both of which are free, to then spend my time ripping out each of the ads such that I can read my aforementioned copy of my local alternative press completely ad free, am I now guilty of a crime?
Or hey, how about if I use Lynx (a terminal based non-graphical web browser for those unaware)? If you send to me a graphical ad as part of the markup for any given page am I now guilty of a crime because my browser is unable to render that graphic?
Censoring others (unless you have the legal right and/or responsibility (e.g. your children)) is one thing. But censoring yourself? As far as I know, censoring oneself is still completely legal.
And let’s hope it stays that way!
Okay, so back to your answer to your own question,
Demographics have shown that not only are FireFox users a somewhat small percentage of the internet, they actually are even smaller in terms of online spending, therefore blocking FireFox seems to have only minimal financial drawbacks,
So, in essence, what you’re suggesting is that the people you are blocking are,
1) Small in number, and
2) Cheap and/or poor, so therefore
3) Blocking them from reading your *FREE* content will,
have only minimal financial drawbacks
, correct?
So then wouldn’t the same be true if you didn’t block them?
whereas ending resource theft has tremendous financial rewards for honest, hard-working website owners and developers.
Huh?
So let me get this straight: The people you are blocking hold the potential of being cheap and/or poor “criminals”, a subset of site visitors which represent a small percentage of your total site visitors in the first place and yet,
ending resource theft has tremendous financial rewards for honest, hard-working website owners and developers.
You sure about that? Here, let me pose the following question/scenario to you,
What percentage of Firefox users have Ad Block Plus installed?
A quick search doesn’t bring up anything so at this stage I really have no idea what the number is. But what I do know is this: I don’t have Ad Block Plus installed and I have Firefox open all the time, sharing its web browsing duties with both Safari and Opera. In this regard while I can only speak for myself, the fact that I don’t have Ad Block Plus installed means that we can safely assume that the number of installs is less than 100%. But lets just throw a number out there and see what happens. Let’s say that 50% of Firefox users have Ad Block Plus installed (I doubt it’s even close to that many, but you never know.) and the other 50% do not. Coming back to the question I posed at the beginning of this letter,
If people are going out of their way to block ads via Ad Block Plus do you honestly believe they represent a significant percentage of the +/-2.5% of the people who actually ever click on web ads in the first place?
Okay, now lets take this from the reverse,
Using the above 50/50 assumption, are the remaining 50% who have not installed Ad Block Plus more or less likely to click on an ad than those who have installed Ad Block Plus?
Oh wait, I’m sorry. Given that you’re blocking *ALL* Firefox site visitors from viewing your *FREE* content, I guess there’s no way for you to know exactly just how much potential revenue you’re losing out on.
Hmm… That must suck, huh?! ;-)
Well, best of luck to you.
Sincerely,
Yet Another Lost Potential Revenue Generating Firefox User


I think the solution is simple. Somebody should just port Ad Block Plus to Internet Explorer.
@Sjoerd,
>> I think the solution is simple. Somebody should just port Ad Block Plus to Internet Explorer.
I thought somebody already had. Either that or something similar.
Anybody happen to know for sure one way or another?
Poor folks - all that time and energy wasted on trying to prevent something you can't stop. They seem to assume that they will be able to force Firefox users to use IETab or another browser, and therefore force people to see their ads. They obviously don't know about the lovely User Agent Switcher extension - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/59
Truly a battle they can't win.
@Duncan,
>> They obviously don't know about the lovely User Agent Switcher extension
Or for that matter the simple fact that anyone, regardless of their browser, can turn off Javascript and disable all active content including a good majority of the ads.
>> Truly a battle they can't win.
Yup! What's even funnier is that what's likely to happen is that more people will discover and install Ad Block Plus resulting in more Fx users and less advertising dollars. Obviously not the result they were hoping for, but it's not like they didn't have enough warning signs,
Headline,
ILLEGAL DOWNLOADS DESTROYING MUSIC INDUSTRY!
The worlds population of 13-30 somethings,
"You mean I can download all the music I want for free? SWEET!"
I have always thought of myself as a law abiding American. I read every billboard along the highway every day I pass it on my commute. But I never thought that if I am watching America's Funniest Home Invasions and I flip to American Idle during the commercials I am stealing.
Must call 911 on self immediately so I can watch the cops break down my front door and arrest me.
@Bill Basso,
>> But I never thought that if I am watching America's Funniest Home Invasions and I flip to American Idle during the commercials I am stealing.
Speaking of which, I wonder if any of the folks behind the above linked site took note of the fact that Tivo, in all of its law abiding glory does, for all intents and purposes, the exact same thing Ad Block Plus?
Are all Tivo owners thieves as well?
>> Must call 911 on self immediately so I can watch the cops break down my front door and arrest me.
That would be sweet! Can you let me know right before you do so I can remember to set my Tivo? I would watch it live but, you know, I haven't met my quota today for stolen web content, and until I do the inner thief in me will keep pushing at me and pushing at me until I do!
Ahh the life of a content thief. A vicious downward spiral once you've had your first taste, thats for certain! ;-)
QUOTE
ripping out each of the ads such that I can read my aforementioned copy of my local alternative press completely ad free, am I now guilty of a crime?
/QUOTE
Your arguments are really weak. First off, he's not saying it's a crime to block ads. It's also not a crime to deny you access to content. You're the one assuming things here.
QUOTE
So then wouldn't the same be true if you didn't block them?
/QUOTE
Sure, but you're missing the point, the point is, they are getting free content and they could be a lot of revenue. Why not save bandwidth and just block these people?
QUOTE
So let me get this straight: The people you are blocking hold the potential of being cheap and/or poor "criminals", a subset of site visitors which represent a small percentage of your total site visitors in the first place
/QUOTE
Again you go with the criminal and breaking-the-law part. There's a difference between wronging a person and breaking the law. The first is a moral and ethical issue, the second is a legality issue. The fact that so few people actually understand the difference between morals and laws is why countries like my home country of the US have ever-increasingly stupid leaders making ever-increasingly stupid decisions to centralize power and regulate morality. You'll note you're the only person here making this out to be a legal issue instead of a moral one.
QUOTE
Oh wait, I'm sorry. Given that you're blocking *ALL* Firefox site visitors from viewing your *FREE* content, I guess there's no way for you to know exactly just how much potential revenue you're losing out on.
/QUOTE
Actually, he probably knows exactly how much and doesn't care. You see, in order for someone to make the decision to block Firefox, they have to have seen the percentage of hits compared to ad revenue and probably drew a correlation between hits, revenue, and which ones weren't doing revenue and found out the vast majority of his visitors using Firefox weren't generating revenue for him.
Simple solution: ban Firefox from entering his site.
The advertising model for the web is dead. Google is dead. Who has the next business model?
I was unaware that such a campaign (WhyFirefoxIsBlocked.com) even existed. It really is ridiculous to suggest that by removing all that crap from MY browser is, in any way, criminal. I cannot imagine a site (or sites for that matter) that would be so important to me that would make me switch browsers just b/c they disapprove of firefox.
It's such a shame that people are so clueless and illiterate. All this fuss because you simply don't want to bother reading the page.
I don't want people accessing my site that use ad blocking software. Seems fair enough to me. 99% of the internet would agree that I should have the right to block access to people who are using that kind of software.
But the AdBlockPlus people make sure site owners cannot block people using their software, so the only alternative they've left me is to block FireFox.
Now comes all the tin-foil-hate wearing paranoids who think ony FireFox prevents Bill Gates from controlling them via the chip the CIA put in their head, and in order to convince me that they aren't freeloading criminals, they violate the law and attept to shut my site down, simply because I want to control how people see my site. Oh, and sites like Shashdot, Digg and others allow commenters to encourage people to violate the law--yet somehow I'm the bad guy.
It's my site, and if i want to control how people view it, I'm not letting a bunch of terrorists force me into changing that--and when you attempt to change someone's behavior by threat of harm, you are a terrorist. The vile, obscene emails and phone calls, they attempts to shut down my server with DOS attacks and bandwidth eating programs, are all acts of terrorism, and it's really interesting how many people who seem to get offended at being called "thieves" have no problems acting like terrorists.
What also amazes me is how much time so many people are wasting trying to change one site that they'd probably never have even visited in the first place. Some people, seriously, need to get a life.
@Wow,
>> Your arguments are really weak. First off, he's not saying it's a crime to block ads. > It's also not a crime to deny you access to content. You're the one assuming things here. > Again you go with the criminal and breaking-the-law part. There's a difference between wronging a person and breaking the law. The first is a moral and ethical issue, the second is a legality issue. > The fact that so few people actually understand the difference between morals and laws > You see, in order for someone to make the decision to block Firefox, they have to have seen the percentage of hits compared to ad revenue and probably drew a correlation between hits, revenue, and which ones weren't doing revenue and found out the vast majority of his visitors using Firefox weren't generating revenue for him.
@Danny Carlton,
>> It's my site, and if i want to control how people view it, I'm not letting a bunch of terrorists force me into changing that--and when you attempt to change someone's behavior by threat of harm, you are a terrorist. The vile, obscene emails and phone calls, they attempts to shut down my server with DOS attacks and bandwidth eating programs, are all acts of terrorism, and it's really interesting how many people who seem to get offended at being called "thieves" have no problems acting like terrorists.
Danny,
Then we have quite a problem. Because, if we use your reasoning, people who create spyware and malicious code as part of their websites also have a right to place this software on a victim's machine if that person chooses to come by and look at their website. The victim has no right to block this, Google and others have no right to inform users of sites known to harbor malicious code (thereby dissuading potential victims from going there), etc.
I am unfair, but you at least know what side you stand on.
Anonymous
The thing he fails to grasp is that website owners do NOT have the right to advertise to me. They can sell ad-space all they want, but they don't have the right to make me look at it.
Now if we were talking about illegally gaining access to a paid site or something like that he might have a point. Accessing material for free that other people pay for is another matter.
But nobody has an inherent right to advertise.
Danny Carlton > You have got to be kidding me. Do people like you really exist?
Right your unhappy about people blocking ads? Well you better block IE7 as well then as IE7PRO addon SUPPORTS AD BLOCKING (oh dear!).
Why not try and look at different methods instead of flooding the internet with more and more ads, if I want to block ads as I can't stand annoying Flash ads etc.
Actually I spend several thousand a year online and I use firefox. Oh, and I don't use Ad Block Plus. I don't even have the user agent switcher installed, so I guess I'm out of luck.
Danny,
In order for ad-blocking to be considered criminal, you have to expressly state to users that your content is on offer contingent upon the fact that they view your ads. If a user agrees to view your ads in order to view your content and then blocks the ads, they've broken their contract with you and you have a case.
Until then, you are arguing that putting ads on a web site creates an implicit contract between you and your users.
Sorry, but it doesn't.
I was happy enough with the included adblock for getting rid of particularly annoying ads, or those which block text because of poor html/css. Apparently though, AdBlock Plus is really effective. I think I'll go install it.
I find it funny to see you people argue over such a stupid topic.
I have Adblock plus installed and I use Firefox. Last time I check I the one paying my bandwidth bills and since I have installed that wonder called Adblock plus, do you know how much less bandwidth I consume per month? Without that flash crap and such, I get roughly 2 gigs less in bandwidth PER MONTH....
Sorry, but you can keep you 2mb crap I have no interest in. BTW, if someone really wants to see your site, they just have to use a proxy and report as being a google 2.1 agent, very easy to do.
Why would you find a battle that you already have lost and will not win no mater how hard you try...PGP and DES encryption were supposed to be invulnerable to cracking...no? A smart a** figured it out and it can be cracked...you're little scheme to block Firefox will only trigger more interest in bypassing you game from hackers and such. Why will they be doing it? For the kick and fun of it, challenge! That's how it's always been and will always be.
I you want to find out the vulnerabilities of a system, just make a post on the net and challenge the public to get in and bypass it...that's want you just did.
Danny,
Quit throwing around the word "terrorist". As far as I know no one has committed an acts of violence or attempted to terrorize you in any way. Haphazardly using the word to describe any and every mischievous act cheapens the word.
There is something called hypocrisy and I assume that you understand that. If you are with a clear conscience, why do I still see ads on your blog ???
The whole point of the WhyFirefoxIsBlocked.com was to educate people about what are they doing, unknowingly. Can you explain your grandma that some ads on the right side make google millions every year. Probably she will not even be looking at them!
What is the difference in actually seeing some extra words instead of a clean background. The site puts a genuine point forward. Ad block takes all freedom from the content creator. Isn't it what we call as dictatorship?
If there is no incentive no-one will actually bother about content creation. Contextual ads give the author to create unbiased opinion, review about anythings, and almost everything. And thats what contextual ads have done to you.
Have you gone to this guys real web site? The first post on it mentioned the "Religion of Evolution." At first, I was angry about this Firefox blocking thing, but having read his blog, I think he was doing us all a favor.
Good article - couldn't agree more.
The only adverts I've ever clicked on have been by accident due to them expanding upon mouseover or adverts sliding in to the center of my screen.
If a site makes money from me clicking on adverts mistakenly via the deceptive techniques mentioned above, surely it's an equivalently grievous action as those who block firefox claim adblock users are committing?
As you say, people block adverts for a reason - they're annoying and they know they're never going to click on them.
Obviously these sites aren't proud of their content or don't consider themselves to be pervaying a message of any worth otherwise they'd let the content attract users and enjoy harvesting clicks from firefox users who don't use adblock and like clicking on the occasional ad.
The "terrorism" Danny seems so concerned about (DoS attacks, etc.) is almsot certainly just the result of the "Slashdot effect" (a.k.a. "Digg effect", "Reddit effect", etc.). Unfortunately, by giving this wingnut yet another public forum in which to rant, you have pretty much guaranteed that he will be sufficiently infamous to have a voice in future debates about this topic, despite his logic being at least as flawed as pointed out in this article.
Please, folks, stop feeding the trolls. We don't need Andrew Keen, or Danny, or any of their ilk using illogical B.S. (like calling people "terrorists" and "thieves") to mask their simple anti-Internet agenda. For those who think they have it all figured out, the Web can be a nasty shock: it's far too dynamic, fast-changing, and far-reaching a phenomenon for any one person to master, which apparently scares the hell out of some of them.
Quoting 'anonymous': "If there is no incentive no-one will actually bother about content creation. Contextual ads give the author to create unbiased opinion, review about anythings, and almost everything. And thats what contextual ads have done to you."
So there's no point making music or being creative if there's no $$ in it? Please.
Danny,
You argument about saving bandwidth is ridiculously stupid. I, as a browser of your site, also expend my own bandwidth to do so. Why should you have the right to consume my bandwidth for advertising? As another poster pointed out, there is no contract between us. I am in no way obligated to view your ads in order to pay your expenses. You are trying to force a business model on your users that is against their interest, and you will fail. If your content is so valuable you would be wise to implement a secure payment model, otherwise, get off your soapbox and shut up.
Its a funny old world, get a grip Danny if you bounce people they go elsewhere! and will not return what ever the software used.
"There is something called hypocrisy and I assume that you understand that. If you are with a clear conscience, why do I still see ads on your blog ???"
That's funny, I don't even have AdBlock on this Firefox, and I don't see ads (other than the word "advertisement") on this blog.
I think we should call him and get his opinion...
[EDIT:MDP] <snip/>
[Update:MDP] Not cool, kieranmullen. There's nothing that justifies this kind of crap.
My apologies to the rest of you for not noticing this before now.
I've been using Firefox for years now, and never installed Ad Block. Thank you for reminding me that, really, it's about time I did. I have no idea what has taken me so long.
OMG, kieranmullen, WTF is wrong with you?
Not cool, dude. Not cool at all.
Umm...in case you didn't know, I can block ads (in Windows) using my hosts file.
http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
So if I want to block ads, I don't really need to use Firefox to do it, using the host file blocks a lot of ads in ALL browsers. So the argument that only add-ons are responsible is without merit.
I installed that ad-blocker in my Firefox and found that it does indeed load pages faster. (they should thank those guys for the free advertising)
I think it's a fact that ads often have beneficial informational content and I'm not normally averse to seeing them, but it does bother me a LOT when an advertiser is overloading his adserver and it slows down MY browsing.
If this kind of software makes advertiser ensure that their ads do not slow web page loading down, it's a good thing.
One slow-to-load ad can slow a webpage down and everyone suffers.
Make sure your advertisements are both entertaining and informational/educational and no one will want to block them.
Make sure your ads load fast and no one will need to block them.
Is that REALLY so hard???
This guy is a moron who doesn't understand the first thing about the internet. Or maybe just a lame publicity stunt. If he sees this, http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm I wonder how long it will take him to block all web traffic. That'll show 'em.
I'm sorry, I use adblock because I pay a metered bandwidth bill every month. Huge flash-based advertisements quickly eat up the limited bandwidth allocation I already have, and personally, since it's MY bandwidth that I have already paid for, I have the right to choose what does or does not come through my pipeline.
As it is, most of Mr. Carlton's ads are Flash and Java-based. As I automatically disable all Flash and Java scripts, there really is no need for AdBlock, as I've effectively disabled his ads by just clicking a couple of boxes and disabling the technology he needs to have his ads displayed.
Of course, I could always turn those addons back on, and then just send Mr. Carlton the bill for an unauthorized usage of my resources, and if he refuses to pay I can take him to civil court and really deprive him of money. The courts have sided with every company and individual that has ever sued for that reason, and I'd guarantee I would win just as easily.
Mr. Carlton is just making the rest of us technically knowledgeable people hang our heads in shame. The internet was never meant to be commercialized, and commercializing it has ruined it's original purpose - the spread and freedom of information through a network that could stay active even if multiple nodes were destroyed.
Now, because of people like Mr. Carlton, our internet is an unsafe s***storm due to the forcing of people to use a non-W3C compliant browser that has more security holes than any other browser out there.
Thank you, Mr. Carlton. You and your ilk are bound to destroy this network, and this is why we're making a second internet, one that can be free of capricious and uneducated fools such as yourself.
That site owner seems to be under the impression that there is a contract between him and his site viewers. There is no contract. There is no obligation. I wonder why he thinks there is?
I am not obligated to pay attention to ads or commercials on TV, radio, newspapers, magazines, billboards, web sites or tattoos on people's foreheads. In fact, this site owner should ask his own advertisers what they think about this supposed obligation. He will be surprised by the answer.
Advertising is like fishing, you throw out the bait and hope you catch something. They hope to catch people's attention, but there is no obligation for us to give it.
Oh, this is fun.
Firefox users (an alternative browser from the Mozilla Foundation) can install plug-ins for managing the user agent value, such as the User Agent Switcher at http://chrispederick.myacen.com/work/firefox/useragentswitcher/ or the UserAgent bar at http://uabar.mozdev.org. Alternately, type the special URL "about:config" in the browser's location bar to access the browser's properties and use the popup menu to add a new property called "general.useragent.override" with the desired value.
It doesn't help your position much when, even after asking them not to, commenters in agreement with your position then encourage even more illegal activites in retaliation for what I do on my own site.
Please remove the personal information posted here. There are some sick people out there and I've already had to pay extra to have a private registration of that site (my fault for assuming FireFox and ad block users wouldn't be crazy enough to personally attack me and my family)
If you attempt to illegitimately modify my behavior based on fear of what you'll do to me, then that's terrorism. No violence is needed, only the threat of it.
"It's my site, and if i want to control how people view it, I'm not letting a bunch of terrorists force me into changing that"
You have lost perspective, my friend. Once something is publicized, it is no longer completely yours. And I as a reader/viewer/consumer can and will choose how, when, and where I will view your site.
Your mother is ashamed of you for calling people terrorists because they expressed opinions. I'm certainly ashamed of you.
I'm not defending Mr. Carlton, but I don't get how the people posting here expect content providers (from newspapers and magazines to only-only news/commentary providers to bloggers) to survive. You seem to be saying:
1. You will not pay a subscription fee.
2. You will block any ads on any site -- not just the bloated Flash ones, but all of them.
Of course, you still want to benefit from the information and entertainment these sites provide. You just want it for free. Sounds nice, but how will this model work? And what will you do when these information/entertainment sources start to dry up?
Please explain. I really want to understand.
You correctly point out that according to their own argument, websites that block Firefox only succeed in preventing people from viewing their site who wouldn't have clicked on the adds anyway. That makes it sound like a zero net loss/gain.
However, you failed to point out that these people who can no longer view their site can no longer tell all their non-Addblock using friends how great the site is! Hence, it's now a net loss!
Just FYI:
Terrorism: see Section 2 (15), Homeland Security Act of 2002, Pub. L. 107-296, 116 Stat. 2135 (2002)
"And lets hope it stays that way!"
LET'S, not LETS.
Dude, you're not on wordpress.com -- this is a professional blog on a highly visible and respected network. Where are your editors? Where is your spell-checker? This is not nit-picking, considering where you're posting.
The rule isn't that complex. In English, if you leave out a letter, you have to add an apostrophe. "Let us" becomes "let's". "Do not" becomes "don't". Learn it. Love it. Live it.
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_apost.html
[INSERT:MDP] Thanks for the catch! Fixed.
Hear hear Leah! This is the crux of the issue. There is no implicit contract.
@Danny - You should be allowed to block Firefox users, just the same as I should be allowed to use Ad-Block. You should be allowed to post hyperbolic inflammatory accusations with a tenuous basis in reality, just as I should be able to post a rant about how ridiculous it is to equate "theft" with something that is not stealing.
The reason people are so angry about this is first because no one likes to be called a thief. You can not simply redefine thief to mean some abstract and indeterminate loss you believe you may have suffered indirectly. "Theft" has an actual meaning, but here it is just used as a political term to smear someone else. It's kind of like calling anyone who disagrees with Bush unpatriotic.
Second, there are a lot of "facts" about Firefox, that really appear to be made up out of thin air. I don't buy for an instant that Firefox users spend less money online. It's use is dominated by well-earning tech professionals and hipsters who are far more likely to do as much business as possible on-line. I don't have any numbers to back this up, but neither does the original page, it just smells funny.
But keep in mind, NEITHER M DAVID PETERSON NOR MYSELF ARE DISPUTING YOUR RIGHT TO DO THIS. Do whatever you want... I don't see how it will work to your benefit, but feel free to try.
"Sounds nice, but how will this model work? And what will you do when these information/entertainment sources start to dry up?"
1- They probably won't dry up.
2- AdBlock doesn't block text ads. So *useful*, contextual advertising like AdWords is not blocked. Sometimes I even find myself clicking on an ad.
3- You doubt the market's ability to innovate. If you create something that doesn't work, someone will come along with an idea that the market likes better, and voila. Thus the death of the banner ad and the birth of contextual advertising. Just an example.
Since I'm being banned from some site because the browser I'm running might have a plug-in, I guess I'll install that same plug-in. If they're gonna convict you for doing it, you might as well do it.
@sabat:
"1- They probably won't dry up."
Got anything to back that up? Look at what's happening to newspapers -- even the very best ones (NY Times, Washington Post) who clearly have a lot of compelling content to offer. Virtually all of them are cutting back, some drastically. It's expensive to pay those reporters, columnists and photographers. If you think little AdWords ads will bring in anything approaching that kind of revenue you're out of touch with the business world.
Oh, and I've read plenty of complaints about the intrusion of AdWords and its ilk. How long before some innovator has figured out how to block them as well?
Oh, poor Danny Carlton. He calls people thieves and is upset when they get angry at him and behave, like, well, people. No, its not worth my time to get angry, write him a nasty letter, but I'll wager the so-called "DOS attack" is really the net effect of being posted on every blog and link agglomeration site on the internet. POOR, POOR Danny Carlton.
Next time don't be a jackass.
http://image.bayimg.com/gagfdaabb.jpg
Got to love AdBlock!
I seriously doubt the validity of any legal case brought up against AdBlock. This article is absolutely right. If somebody has gone to the trouble of getting AdBlock, there's a reason, and I believe that reason is the fact that that person hates the ads in the first place. If someone dislikes ads to the point where he/she proactively downloads software to make them go away, then what delusional webmaster would think that this person is going to ever click on the ads in the first place?
If anything, blocking Firefox because of this will hinder your traffic severely. I can promise, if I run into a website that blocks Firefox (I don't even use AdBlock), even were I not armed with this knowledge of why, I would absolutely not bother to go try it in another web browser. I would simply find a comparatively better site that does not discriminate against net users for the sole purpose of making a few extra cents that probably aren't even there.
Hey, while we're at it, what's with this DVR thing that everybody has nowadays. How many people record shows, then skip the commercials? How many people used to do it with VHS tapes? Is this illegal? How about getting up from watching TV to get a snack, have a conversation, or ignoring commercials altogether? How about going into a movie theater purposely late because you don't want to see the ads and previews? The list goes on. It's a choice made to avoid ads of any sort, and in no way can be considered illegal without attempting to force behavior on people.
I'll tell you one thing. It doesn't matter what you do, some people (myself included) will not look at the ads anyways. My brain is the number 1 ad blocking software, because you can't stop it.
TO whom it may concern:
You can go ahead and block firefox. No matter what "service" you provide, there are 1000 other non-fascist sites providing the same thing. Good luck with that.
To those making threats to Mr Danny Carlton, please stop it. You have no right to hassle him just because you do not agree with him. Freedom of speech allows us all to express our different views and opinions, and we should remember that not everyone in the world has that freedom.
That said, I too disagree with Mr Carlton. Any product that is funded by advertising has no contract with its customers to say that they have to look at the said advertising.
Many newspapers, magazines, TV channels, radio stations, etc are funded by advertising. By enjoying one of these products, I do not implicitly agree to look at (or listen to) the advertising they display. If I watch a TV show I am free to switch channels during an ad break. If I buy a newspaper nobody can make me look at the print ads.
In fact, Mr Carlton's contention that by visiting his site I agree to look at his ads is flawed thusly:
I don't make a commitment to look at the ads in the New York Times when I buy a copy. They sell the ad space to advertiser on the basis that some people who buy their paper may look at it, and some may not. So they tell an advertiser, we have a circulation of 1.1 million readers per day, so you can advertise with us, and at most 1.1 million people will look at your ad. But the advertiser accepts the risk that zero people will look at the ad, although the probability of that happening is very low.
How about if we assume that there is a hypothetical service that offers to rip out all the ads in a copy of the New York Times and sell it to me for the same price (i.e. the ad-ripping service is free). Would this then be illegal? I don't think so, because I never made any commitment to look at those ads when I bought the (ad-filled) paper in the first place. There is nothing to say that I would have looked at those ads even if they were there.
So I say to you Mr Carlton, you are wrong sir, and would do well to refrain from blocking Firefox users who use ad-blocking software to stop seeing ads. It is their right to do so, unless as mentioned by someone above, they expressly agree to look at your ads before viewing your content, by clicking on some sort of "I Agree" button after being given said terms and conditions to read.
Well done on generating a most stimulating debate. My colleagues on Cybertron are debating this issue with much interest.
The "DOS Attacks" could merely be digg/reddit effect?
Nice article, very crisp and to the point.. Keep it up
Eh?
man, the definition for terrorist is getting pretty low...
I'd prefer if nobody made any negative remarks to my post, as I consider that Terrorism...
Someone should port the access list from AdBlock Plus to my Netgear router
Jack Lewis (aka Danny Carlton), I never click on ads, never. So I installed Adblock to automate this process for me. Site owners control want content is available to the public, but I control what I see on my own computer. Nothing you do or any campaign you start that grants you 2 minutes of fame will ever change that. If you want to block Firefox visitors, it's your right. Do what you want to achieve this. I don't want to see ads and I do what I need to do to achieve this.
I have ads on my own website, but I can't see them because of adblock. People that visit my site are more than welcome to block ads as there are plenty of people that don't.
Cheers!
Mr. Carlton,
Your antics have been quite amusing these past few days. Apparently, I'm not only a thief, but having viewed your website through Slashdot and Digg, I'm now a George W. Bush-styled terrorist in your feverish, deluded mind.
A hint: what others have done amounts to misdemeanor harassment. I know, contrary to conservative trends, not everything you dislike can be coined terrorism. Reality can be unreasonable like that.
Having browsed through your other websites and blogs, I've come to realize something: you personally have done a far more proficient and thorough job of turning me off from ever giving you a dime than Adblock could have ever done on its own. Incidentally, that includes your book.
Mr. Carlton, I suggest you treasure these fifteen minutes of fame, for better or for worse. You're unlikely to garner any more of it.
According to this guy, anyone who falls under section 508 accessibility laws is a thief! Blind People, Mental Handicap persons, and anyone using special browsers or screen readers, or people on mobile phones with mini-browser! They are all thieves!
Nobody was clicking his damn ads anyway, especially now. He has NO right to dictate the content I VIEW, the web is PUBLIC, I can choose to look at what I WANT. Don't call us thieves because we won't look at your ads. Maybe we should all sue you for slander?
According to this guy, anyone who falls under section 508 accessibility laws is a thief! Blind People, Mental Handicap persons, and anyone using special browsers or screen readers, or people on mobile phones with mini-browser! They are all thieves!
Nobody was clicking his damn ads anyway, especially now. He has NO right to dictate the content I VIEW, the web is PUBLIC, I can choose to look at what I WANT. Don't call us thieves because we won't look at your ads. Maybe we should all sue you for slander?
FYI, Internet Explorer is the browser with the MOST ad blocking software. If you look at statics of brower users, you will see that there are MORE PEOPLE BLOCKING ADS in IE than there are TOTAL people using firefox!!!!
I would not call ad-blocking illegal. The user has the right to view the content in any way they can and you should never alienate your users. If you find they are blocking ads, then get smarter and learn to monetize your site better. Anyone blocking Firefox users ever study how often someone comes back when not viewing annoying popups and other ad methods vs. those who have to view them? Before you jump to blocking you might want to understand that metric. If you have real content, it should be greater making your site more valuable (imagine if a network TV station ran no commercials). These technologies are coming out as a backlash to ad abuse and as they are adopted I am sure there will be just as many methods to counter them. Firefox is a great browser and if people want to view my sites with out ads, then I have no problems as there are just as many that will view it with ads.
I feel like I am being attacked when a bunch of advertisements start to pop up and interfere with my browsing a site. I will always use pop-up ad blockers. If and when I want to shop I will Google the product or company. I resent having things shoved in my face. I do not watch TV because the constant barrage of commercials are nearly as offensive as the low grade programming. But if I did watch something on TV, would I be a criminal if I turned the volume down during commercials? What if I left the room?
@Danny
I am a Firefox and Adblock user, but I explicitly allow a great many sites to post ads. If it is a site I visit and read regularly, and the posted Ads are "well-behaved" which is the case for sites I frequent, I am happy to allow the ads. Good ads can be helpful to me, and if I do use them, I am happy that the I sites I like are getting a revenue stream.
What you have not addressed in your arguments is this: What alternative do you offer for users who want to avoid ads that behave awfully? This includes downloading malware and various security theats as others have mentioned, but other bad behaviors like obnoxious pop-ups that obscure the view of the content, or ads that immediately play loud sound tracks. (In many environments, a cacophony of sound from multiple websites on different machines is unacceptable. That is why more reasonably formed video ads make the sound track optional.) I am willing to bet that Adblock or some alternative will eventually find its way onto all browsers and will become very populate because people like me who would normally be rather tolerant of ads will need some kind of tool to defend ourselves from abusive advertisers. If this happens, abusive advertisers will have only themselves to blame. What do you offer as an alternative?
I think it's no accident that this person uses the word "terrorism" for something that isn't terrorism and "theft" for something that isn't theft.
hahaha the "dos" attacks were probably the millions of digg, engaget and other users clicking on the news stories. anyway hope his advertising is able to pay his bandwidth bill especially without those pesky firefox users lol
People usually don't complain when they have to sit through a few commercials every ten minutes, or see a small tasteful ad on the side of a web page. But advertizers have taken advantage of the new technologies available to them to make ads that are far too intrusive. If an ad takes up the entire screen, hogs bandwidth, plays annoying sounds, opens a new window, etc. then it is far too intrusive. This is why people go to the trouble of blocking ads. Because a (hopefully) minority of advertizers cross the line of what viewers are willing to deal with, the viewers get fed up with ads in general. If you want us to view ads, then make them tasteful. Most internet users understand that you need to pay the bills with advertizing. But don't insult our intelligence and waste our resources with overbearing ads. Besides, the internet is an open and evolving medium. I can look at a website with whatever browser I want (including a console browser like lynx), and set whatever user agent I want. If that breaks someone's buisiness model, well maybe their model isn't very good then. It will always be a struggle between users and advertizers to find a happy medium where content providers get revenue and consumers can enjoy the content in peace. But don't make us out to be criminals because we are fed up with some ads. figure out a way to make us want to see you ads
Here's how it works: if you want to run your site on my goddamn computer, you go by my goddamn rules.
It's too bad there isn't an AssBlocker extension. I would never have seen this guy's site or comments.
Not only do I use Adblock-Plus (awesome), but I went and registered my copy of Ad Muncher (best $25 I've EVER spent on software!). That not only gets rid of the image ads, but java, flash, and GOOGLE TEXT ADS!. I see NO ads at all, unless I want to. And if one DOES slip under the radar? A simple right-click and "add to ad muncher" takes care of that. If you've got some "contract" with your readers that mandates they must view the ads, make them sign in, use YOUR flavor of browser, or put your content behind a paid-subscription wall. You can not, and WILL NOT ever EVER be able to force people to see ads they don't want to see, and would NEVER click on in the first place. If I want info on something, I'll look it up. I don't need 1/2 of the web page I look at to be covered in gaudy, blinking, flashing, animated banners trying to con me into clicking them so you can get your two cents. Screw you, Danny
There is now a blog for the site too.
The decision to block Firefox is neutral - pretty much everyone has access to Other Browser(TM).
The decision to call every Firefox user a thief in public isn't. It is based on patently wrong "guilty until proven innocent" assumption.
Decision on proper use of content rests with author until content is delivered, and afterwards user can do as s/he pleases - *except as governed by law and contracts*.
Leah has it right: the contract or law Mr. Carlton presumes to be violated exists only in his head.
The whole premise of calling ad-blocker a thief is akin to going to the public area, then unexpectedly stripping down and demanding money for the show from everyone present. No matter how fugly or offensive it was. If you cover your eyes only partially to see face only yet refuse to pay, you are presumed to be guilty, unlike ones who looked at *shudder* everything but did not pay.
so i am a criminal if i change the channel when commercials come on, or ignore them on the highway? heres the facts, if someone is going to go through that kind of effort to avoid ads id say its pretty safe to say they are not going to click on the ads. BTW a person not participating in a service you provide(the ads portion) sounds more like economics than terrorism. but you got the american gov't stance on the issue down pat, a select few upset you so you cut the whole community off...that always makes a whole lot of sense too........
o0 Loldanny 0o
Danny says: Digg effect = OHNOES i WUZ h@XX0RD!!1
Danny says: HAI GUYS, U LIKE MY MFA? CLICK PLZ?
Danny says: FIRFOX U R BL0XXRD!
"Open source" itself is just another form of communism. Many American families' ability to support, feed, and educate their children depend on the ability to sustain a career programming software. Open source is a DIRECT attack against people who earn a living writing software, and as such is explicitly anti-American in nature. A good alternative to these "open sores" systems like Linux is Apple OS X. You get many of the benefits of Linux without supporting left wing fruitcakes. Microsoft Windows is okay too, but not as cool. Instead of Firefox, use IE or Opera. Instead of Open Office, Microsoft Office is an excellent choice.
Why are you people still wasting your with MasterTech?
Mastertech Banned
It's OK for ads but annoy me are those aggressive banners making noises to pull attentions, the banners run across the web page block everything until you close it or wait for it to disappear in a minute or longer.
"The content here on O'ReillyNet is free to read however you might choose in whatever browser you might choose. "
Unless it is in an iFrame using the Google Reader greasemonkey script.
I have learned to ignore the ads that use flash or other gimmicky tricks that are on the webpage I am browsing. However, ads that pushed onto me I don't like. I don't like pop-up ads in a new window... you know, those ads say that your computer has been compromised etc etc etc.
The majority of Firefox users are tech savvy and don't fall for those type of gimmicks. Maybe thats why they use Firefox since IE has had (and probably still have) security issues. Either way, you're only blocking the more tech savvy group of internet browsers. And their will be a way to view whatever website you have anyways.
You have every right to push your ads onto me. Consequently I should have every right to block whatever you are trying to push. There wouldn't be this issue if advertiser did not force new and annoying pop ups onto me disrupting *MY TIME* and MY CONCENTRATION.*
If blocking all Firefox users is your solution, your website probably was not worth going to in the first place.
Honestly, I don't care about blocking ads most of the time, for one reason: Google. I like O'Reilly's ads, because they're unobtrusive, and because, while I recognize the need for commerce and advertisement, I do not like it when it's shoved in my face with flashing lights, like many graphical advertisements do. So when a web site gives me nice, discreet ads, it makes me happy. And I don't usually buy stuff online, but sometimes there will be something that catches my eye (because of content, not flashiness,) and I will click on that ad. Blocking Firefox is blocking even pertinent ads from me.
The best solution here would be for more people to switch to unobtrusive ads. Then maybe fewer people would have ad blockers.
I really can't believe the crap this guy has stirred up. Frankly, I don't care who blocks ads from my site. If it got to be too expensive, I'd just close the site.
BTW, i love this site!
The solution is simple... do nothing. If we are all going to buy into the statistical modeling scenarios (and I mean truly buy into it!) just ignore it! Yes you, your children, your children's children (forever - latin please!) will never have to be burdened by it. Because statistically we will work this shit out. Sooner or later!
IE can block ads too - hosts file! Don't you think you're over reacting a little bit?
I think the most important thing, which some people have mentioned here and there is that there is no guarantee that people will click on your ads.
I don't have any ad blocking add-ons installed (other than popup blocker) and I have never, ever clicked on an internet ad in the 10 or so years that I've used the internet. So this guy's running on the inaccurate premise that those who see the ads will actually click on them.
@James (obvious troll, whom I should ignore, or sarcasm master beyond my detection ability):
Open Source may be communism, but capitalism is slavery. Freedom is meaningless without the means to pursue happiness.
The moral problem with Artificial Scarcity (what biased persons call "Intellectual Property"), is that you pay someone for having *once* worked, rather than for *working*. The practical problem is that the only way AS can be enforced is with an ever more powerful police state.
Well, I will say this.. Sooner or later ad companies will find ways around adblocker. I foresee ads inserted directly, added by some include method so that the entire ad appears to be coming from the site you are visiting.
Calling it theft may be a little much, but I will agree that as the sites owner, you do have a right to present your content the way you wish. This "I get to view things any way I want" attitude is ingrained in the psyche of many online. I mean, most of these people think music and video content is free and that you should never have to pay for it, why would you expect anything different when it comes to contextual content?
If you are expecting any kind of serious conversation with those who commit DDOS attacks, you are in for a rough one. These are the same kids who got their lunch money beaten out of them when they are kids, and in their twisted little minds, they are justified for taking it out on you.
Danny your just an idiot because most of those crappy ads contain spyware which can lead to people stealing your identity which is wrong as well. Its not illegal to block them annoying ads if it were then Millions of website owners would have done something about it by now. Plus you dont know on how many people are using adblock. Adblock isnt illegal if it were then it would have been taken off of the net by now. and that Case is that you have posted is over 20 years old and stuff has changed alot in that amount of time.
@Robert Cooper,
>> Unless it is in an iFrame using the Google Reader greasemonkey script.
@James,
>> "Open source" itself is just another form of communism.
Will you please stop thinking like a Neanderthal?! This is the kind of crap that MSFT used to try to proliferate, and yet they now have over 600 products that are available under one of their open source licenses. As such, is Microsoft now a member of the Communist Regime?
@BobH,
>> Please explain. I really want to understand.
Well Danny,
did you ever think that calling people thiefs for not showing you proper respect and absolutely obeying your orders will not cause a reaction?
Just for your attention:
If you provide a script used over the net you have to make sure you are not violating any laws. In the european countries you have to have to include some information like a contact adress. Make sure that you will not get sued for your well not so well thought compaign against a lot of www-users.
1. Look up how many people are currently using FF, in my country it's like 40-54%.
2. If that is correct, lets asume how your page ranking improves if you lose for example 54% of your views.
3. Whould your ad-partners more or less likely to invest money on a site which has a poor page ranking and/or just a very poor audience? Whould they offer more or less money on click? If they pay per view, do you really suggest that reducing viewers will help the webmaster using your script paying their server fee?
If I code a page with 50 pop-ups, 100 pop-unders and special java scripts opening 2 new windows for leaving an ad-page and finally including 3 Lines of text and good army of meta tags to lure people on that monster ad-site, am I not a criminal trying to spam my money? (and well if you really believe in your theory, why just adblock, why not blocking all browsers which have a pop-up-blocker? Ok maybe you have to include a downloadlinkf for IE 5.0, but hey, you can really cheering people op by poping so much interesting information in ... and you realy would get instantly rich).
I`m using adblock, but thats only 1 of over 30 ad-blockers available, most of them are especially designed to be used with IE , so why not blocking FF + IE? you will just get rid of the lot people cheating you for not clicking your ad`s. Sue the world that you did not recieve 1 ad-click and 2 buys for one view. I personally do suport projects and websites which I really like, but I will not under any circumstances support bullshit and of course I won`t come back to a site supporting your crappy ideas.
@Danny,
terrorism it the idea of inducting so much fear to a group or state that this group will change their political goal. You are no state or group, you are alone and I'm absolutly sure that blocking a browser is not a political goal. So it is not terrorism, but I can tell you what it is:
IT'S A DAMN SLAP IN EVERYBODY'S FACE TO THE PEOPLE WHO DID SUFFER UNDER A REAL TERROR ATTACK LIKE THAT WHAT HAPPENED AT THE WTC AND IT'S MORE THAT A SHAME THAT YOU DARE TO DEFEND YOURSELF LIKE THAT.
There is something like adblock for IE, I use it myself. A quick Google search will link you to the website.
I wonder how many people installed AdBlock Plus because of the fuss he made?
I'm one.
Thanks for the update David.
Kudos... I wrote a similar article on my blog a little over a week ago. Interesting how our take on the story, and our arguments in response to it, are very similar. The fact is that the arguments they use against Fx users are full of holes in logic. Anyway, feel free to check out my blog and leave a comment if you want. I promise you don't have to click on any ads to read it. :)
@Yours Truly,
>> Kudos... I wrote a similar article on my blog a little over a week ago. Interesting how our take on the story, and our arguments in response to it, are very similar. > The fact is that the arguments they use against Fx users are full of holes in logic. > Anyway, feel free to check out my blog and leave a comment if you want. I promise you don't have to click on any ads to read it. :)
Thank you for this article, it is real fun to read it. Btw, the numbers you were asking about - I don't have exact numbers either but it seems that no more than 2% of Firefox users have Adblock Plus installed. Which makes this campaign as ridiculous as ever.
Well it's all so stupid : if you install an ad blocker, it probably means you are already ignoring the ads, you just don't want to see them anymore.
And to add a silly argument : most ads are graphical, and I have a download limit on my internet connection. This page is 120K, and 35K is advertisements. So 1/4 of my time and download limit is wasted on something I always ignore. And this page contains a lot of text so the average ratio must be 1/2 easy. So actually I pay to see advertisements. Do you always pay for something you don't even want ?
And if you host your site for free, but with ads added to it (what this discussion is about), the hosting company is usually a telecom provider. But since I pay my connection already, I already contributed to them so they can keep offering free hosting:-)
Just saying, you can take this as far as you want, there are always arguments for both sides :-)
And a question for Mr. Carlton : let's consider television : if you are watching a show or movie, and there is a commercial break, do you always stay in your couch and also watch the commercials, or do you sometimes use this break to get a drink or change the channel or do something else?
Your approach would be the equivalent of forcing you to stay in front of the TV and watch all commercials too :-)
If that was the case, I would never watch the channel again, it's their right to make me watch, it's mine to choose not to.
So all aside, isn't this working contra-productive?
You are the one who has the website Danny. You are the one that should bear the onus of paying for it. People reading your site is a privilege. They don't have to do so.
People call me on the phone all the time. I don't expect them to help me pay my phone bill. I enjoy the fact that they are taking time out of their busy schedule to talk to me! Imagine how often they'd call back if I made them listen to an add before I'd talk to them...
To call someone a thief when they are doing you the honor of reading something you wrote simply because they choose not to view your ads is quite simply slapping someone in the face for doing you a service. No one is forcing them to read your page! You should be pleased that anyone may want to do that, with or without ads... (No, I haven't read your page. I have absolutely no interest to)
Here's an easy fix. Turn your site into paid access. Your readership I'm sure will soar, and you won't have to deal with any "thieves"...
You realize the whole thing is just one big troll aimed at the Firefox community, right? Has anyone ever seen a site redirecting people to this in the wild? That *wasn't* connected to the people involved?
The whole thing is so ridiculous it just stinks to high heaven of troll. As has already been pointed out, ABP is used by such a small number of users that there is no point to the campaign. And extensions like User Agent Switcher make it pointless anyway.
It is actually more upsetting to see people who should know better giving this idiocy more exposure and press. It is a stupid troll and should've been ignored from the start. And if it isn't troll, it is just a crazy guy's idiocy, and should still be ignored. Why does anyone actually care about this site?
Stop feeding the trolls.
@MegaZone,
>> You realize the whole thing is just one big troll aimed at the Firefox community, right?
Aimed at the Fx community? If nothing else this campaign has helped Fx, so I'm not sure what you mean by aimed. I both did and do recognize the fact that there's a good chance this is simply an SEO-type campaign attempting to up his Google rank, or to simply capture peoples attention to each and everyone of his other sites. My purpose for writing this post had everything to do with bringing to the surface the fact that this type of attitude -- and believe it or not this type of attitude runs rampant on the web -- results in having the opposite effect of what was intended.
>> Has anyone ever seen a site redirecting people to this in the wild? That *wasn't* connected to the people involved?
Why exactly does that matter and what exactly would that prove if they hadn't? That Danny Carlton was the sole person behind the campaign? If yes, that became obvious after about the first 30 seconds or so. 'Tis why everyone has been referencing Danny Carlton instead of "all of the people behind WFIB."
>> The whole thing is so ridiculous it just stinks to high heaven of troll.
Fair enough, but you seem to be missing the point of the post. This isn't a "Hey look at this idiot, everybody! HAHA, isn't he stupid?! HAHAHA!" I don't write that kind of crap. Never have, never will. The point of writing posts like this has everything to do with bringing to the surface the types of behaviors that are common in our society that have a tendency to do harm to our society instead of good.
>> As has already been pointed out,
.. by me (and others, but this was part of the original post.)
>> ABP is used by such a small number of users that there is no point to the campaign. And extensions like User Agent Switcher make it pointless anyway.
Yup.
>> It is actually more upsetting to see people who should know better giving this idiocy more exposure and press.
Again, you are missing the point. Just because I know that this guy might be a troll doesn't mean he should just be ignored. Quickly becoming one of my most favorite quotes of all time comes from Dave Matthews in "Before the Music Dies",
There is a lot of dumbing down going on. But I don't think we need to panic. I think we just need to teach our children well.
And how do we teach our children well? Well there are certainly more ways than one, but at least one way is to point out the societal behaviors that are destructive to society as a whole and teach them a better way.
For example: "See this behavior here? This kind of behavior causes harm to others. Causing harm to others is not something we should be doing. A better way to handle this situation would be to... "
>> It is a stupid troll and should've been ignored from the start.
So what you are suggesting is that everybody should stop being so "human" and following their nature? See this is yet another problem in our society: The belief that everybody should just spontaneously get "smarter", recognize that something *might* not be what it seems, relax, and "Go back to sleep." In other words, "Stop being so human, damn it!"
Of course the problem with this mentality is that we *ARE* all human, and attempting to change our human behaviors, especially those of the reflex variety, is not something that is going to work all that well.
I do recognize your point. Sometimes people are not always what they seem, nor do the things they do always have the intention that seems most obvious. But what you seem to be suggesting is that everyone should ignore any and all situations like this because it's _possible_ that the intentions might be ulterior. And while I recognize there are those that will panic at any sign of foul play, the purpose of this post was not of the panic type-nature. It was of the "See this behavior? This kind of behavior is harmful to others..." type.
Don't think people actually think this way? As pointed out above, take a look at the music industry,
Headline,
ILLEGAL DOWNLOADS DESTROYING MUSIC INDUSTRY!
The worlds population of 13-30 somethings,
"You mean I can download all the music I want for free? SWEET!"
The music industry believed that the best way to fight the piracy taking place was to sue and therefore scare *ALL* of their current *AND* future customer base into submission,
"'Steal' from us, will you? Well, WE'LL SHOW YOU!!!"
Of course what they failed to recognize was the same things sites like WFIB and *ANY* other similar efforts have failed to recognize,
If your customer base can't get from you what they want, they're just going to go somewhere else. You can't force them to buy from you, no matter how justified you feel you are in your cause.
Want a good example of how to do it right? Read David Kirkpatrick's piece from July 17th, "How Microsoft Conquered China (or is the other way around)"
By 2001, Microsoft executives were coming to the conclusion that China's weak IP-enforcement laws meant its usual pricing strategies were doomed to fail. Gates argued at the time that while it was terrible that people in China pirated so much software, if they were going to pirate anybody's software he'd certainly prefer it be Microsoft's.
Today Gates openly concedes that tolerating piracy turned out to be Microsoft's best long-term strategy. That's why Windows is used on an estimated 90% of China's 120 million PCs. "It's easier for our software to compete with Linux when there's piracy than when there's not," Gates says. "Are you kidding? You can get the real thing, and you get the same price." Indeed, in China's back alleys, Linux often costs more than Windows because it requires more disks. And Microsoft's own prices have dropped so low it now sells a $3 package of Windows and Office to students.
>> And if it isn't troll, it is just a crazy guy's idiocy, and should still be ignored. Why does anyone actually care about this site?
You should read some of the responses above. In them contain the answer to your question.
>> Stop feeding the trolls.
You see here's the difference between you and me: You see a troll that should be ignored. I see an opportunity that should be embraced.
Enjoy your day.
I use firefox occasionally, but I think I will start using ot more often now. I already block popups. I guess that makes me a bad guy. If I get spam from a company I automatically block that website. I can not think of a single thing that I can not buy someplace else for the same or close to the same price. I have no intention of using adblock, however when somebody tries to intimidate me and tell me what I can or can not do, I get pissed. If a site does get blocked I will fire up internet explorer long enough to go to the site and find their contact page and send them a mesage that although I do not use adblock, I do used firefox and I object to their atempted intimidation and I will be doing my buisiness elsewhere.
It's fairly easy to defeat Danny's blocking scheme with a couple of freeely available mozilla plugins (Change User Agent) and the javascript controller of your choice. (the next version of FF should make the second method unnecessary.) I did it just for fun. Damn shame there isn't anything there really worth reading. I dare say C.S. Lewis would roll over in his grave if knew how much right wing non-sense was being perpetrated in his name.
You sir said everything i had to say.
Respect :)
I love Adblock.
Something I did not see mentioned here is that AdblockPlus users do not necessarily block all ads either - personally I only block ads from domains that I find offensive, so Google AdSense ads are not blocked with my own setup - blinking online casino ads are.
Other than that, I could not care less what he does with his website. The only thing I do care about is the racist crap the man has mixed into the issue - but then again, why should I even bother? He clearly does not deserve the attention.
Case closed, AdBlockPlus is enabled and will stay that way. Don't fight the internet, I like that :)
First: where I come from, to accuse someone of a crime in writing, when they have not been convicted of that crime, is libel. AdBlock users may have grounds for civil action against Danny in some jurisdictions.
Second: how long will it be before AdBlock and UserAgent Switcher are combined to automatically lie about the user agent to sites with such rules?
Third: if an individual causes you to fear for your physical wellbeing by threat, that is (where I come from) common assault (actually being struck is "assault and battery"). However wrong that may be, and I condemn it unequivocally, to equate common assault with suicide bombings and crashing aircraft into buildings is utterly reprehensible.
My other points (economic stupidity, no implicit contract, don't resist the inexorable, etc.) have already been made.
The argument that I am seeing from Danny/Jack, as I understand it, is this: "I (Danny/Jack) get money from advertisers so that they can put their ads all over your desktop browser space. If you have ad blocking software that blocks those ads from loading, I don't get my money for your visit so you are in fact stealing."
Hm. I don't recall being compensated for the use of my processor, RAM, hard disk cache space and network bandwidth, all of which are affected by these ads since two bits cannot occupy the same space so if your ad gets through that means something I'm trying to get done with my own computer has to suffer.
Since you are branding as thieves those users who are not interested in the online equivalent of having the rooms of their houses plastered with billboards, perhaps we can reword your argument in this fashion: "I (Danny/Jack) get money from other people so they can park their cars in your driveway. When you install a gate across the entrance to your driveway to prevent these other people from parking in your driveway, I don't get my money so you are in fact stealing."
There are plenty of solutions as adblock.
_________
Homepage. The Power Of Jedy.
.
.
.
.
.
I defer to the wisdom of Captain Obvious:
http://castlecops.com/p16829-Captain_Obvious.html#16829
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Why stop at blocking firefox? Block all visitors.
the free ANY browser options
Proxomitron
Privoxy
Proximodo
the payware ANY browser / ANY internet application option
Ad Muncher
IE options
IE7pro
AdBlockPro
Ad Brick
uh oh
We need more proxies at my school so we can get on
myspace.