I have now sent full descriptions of our issues to the APP working group and the general consensus, led by Tim, was that what we are doing really doesn’t fit APP.
APP’s sweet spot is just different than Web3S’s. As I showed in my postings it is possible to expose Web3S data via APP but the results tend to be a bit, well, messy and don’t really fit the spirit of APP.
My expectation is that when we have data sources whose behavior fits well with APP we would want to expose them as APP. There is no universal solution to anything. It’s a question of the right tool for the right job.
In reading through the post’s mentioned above, my own take is that members of the AtomPub WG somewhat informally agreed w/ the outcome of the decision to implement Web3S the way they did, just not with the way it was initially presented to the world. In this regard it seems that the Third World^Wide Web War was avoided, and the end of the Cold^WWW War is at very least a plausible scenario.
Any active AtomPub WG dev-list members out there interested in providing your own summary of the events that took place?
Summary: Web3S is Microsoft’s answer to a RESTful web publishing protocol. In many ways it attempts to tackle the same problems solved by the Atom Publishing Protocol. For various reasons** MSFT found APP to be insufficient for their needs. In a follow-up comment to Yaron Goland’s announcement regarding Web3S, Joe Gregorio asked,
“The spec was obviously still in the works when you were working on WebS3 and if you believed you had found real weaknesses with APP, which the ensuing discussion has shown that you didn’t, then why not bring attention to them before we shipped?”
to which Yaron responded with,
As for approaching the TC, I actually did talk with folks in the APP community and they gave answers much like those we received as part of the responses to Dare’s post. As I explain above we do not believe those answers actually solved our problems. Nevertheless we should have gone to the TC. This is a mistake I will remedy forthwith.
Okay, now you’re all caught up. On to the good stuff,
BTW, a critical point to keep in mind in this discussion is that Web3S hasn’t ’shipped’. There does not exist a Web3S service anywhere in the world that I’m aware of. The point of making the Web3S specs available before we have an implementation is to say - PLEASE GIVE US FEEDBACK!
Or in other words,
Hopefully a discussion in the TC will lead us either to understand why we are wrong in our analysis or perhaps the TC will decide that, in fact, APP doesn’t meet our needs and perhaps decide to discuss what changes could be introduced to make it a better fit. But in either case the first stop is the TC.
No sign of a post to the APP Working Group list as of yet. But unless I am completely off target, we are about to witness either the beginning of the the Third World^Wide Web War, or the end of the Cold^WWW War. Either way, history is in the making…
Stay tuned. (< I assure you, I’ll be keeping you posted on all the significant details, without a doubt! ;-)
Update: After a quick parsing of the Web3S spec, I have come to the following potential conclusions,
* There is some *killer* stuff in here!
* If MSFT and the APP WG could come to an agreement in regards to how to integrate the various pieces of this that are not already solved by APP as *extensions* to the APP spec, the world will be a better place because of it.
* The following talking points from the spec I believe are absolutely *MANDATORY*, and regardless of whether APP+Extensions and Web3S become one in the same, these issues need to be discussed, and a specification developed around each one of them,
10.4 XPATH Query Segment Extension
[OPEN ISSUE - 3SAFO - We need to define a mechanism by which to submit xpath queries on request URIs across the Web3S Infoset.]
10.5 SEARCH Method Support
[OPEN ISSUE - 3SAFP - We need to look at DASL et al. to see if we can define a more generic way to submit Web3S queries. We also need to think about supporting XQuery.]
10.6 Serializing the Web3S Infoset into/out of JSON
[OPEN ISSUE - 3SAFQ - We need to specify how to serialize the Web3S Infoset into/out of JSON.]
** BTW: Dare, *thanks* for switching to a /year/month/day/title.ext format for your blog!