Mobile providers -- Wake Up!

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Tim O'Reilly
Oct. 20, 2003 08:39 PM
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I recently sent around to my internal O'Reilly editors mailing list a pointer to Dan Gillmor's column Smart Phones Making More Sense. In the column, Dan wrote: "Orange, a unit of France Telecom, is one of several companies around the world now selling devices that begin to validate the notion of the overpromised and, to date, underdelivered 'smart phone' ..."

Brian Jepson wrote a great reply:

"Thanks for sending this on; I think this is a great example of the future not being evenly distributed. Most, if not all, of the pieces are in place on phones like my Nokia 3650 and some cellular providers' services to do the sorts of things described; why couldn't I send an SMS containing the name of a movie I'm interested in and get an MMS back with a 30-second clip of that movie? No reason I couldn't; the phone is capable of it. Someone could make a business around this and charge 75 cents a pop.

Along the same lines, why couldn't I visit my carrier's WAP site, select Local Info, and then select Movies? It's almost there, but I have to type in my zip code, and after a pile of menus, I just get movie descriptions. But the technology is there on both the T-Mobile network (unlimited data, possibility of correlating location to a rough zip code) and the phone (10 seconds of video @ 176x144 is just about 100k).

Within a year or less, we'll probably see data rates on the GPRS networks going up from 30kbps to 70kbps or more; Sprint and Verizon already have this on their CDMA networks, so we go from roughly 30 seconds of download time per 10 seconds of viewing time to pretty much 1:1.

The real barrier is companies who price the data through the roof; T-Mobile gets it ($9.99 unlimited on your handset, $19.99 if you use your phone as a modem) and so does Sprint ($15 unlimited on your handset). But Verizon and AT&T Wireless still want $80 a month, which is a real turnoff to consumers."

I think Brian is right on about the data rates, but his initial comments are even more telling. The cell phone providers need to adopt the "small pieces loosely joined" design philosophy of open source software and the Internet. That will will allow independent developers and enterprising power users the ability to put existing pieces together to deliver new and exciting services. When all the innovation has to happen within a closed framework managed by the cell provider, it will take a lot longer before we get to the smart phone promised land.

Tim O'Reilly is the founder and CEO of O'Reilly Media, Inc., thought by many to be the best computer book publisher in the world, and an activist for open standards. O'Reilly Media also publishes online through the O'Reilly Network and hosts conferences on technology topics, including the O'Reilly Open Source Convention, the O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference, and the Web 2.0 Conference. Tim's blog, the O'Reilly Radar "watches the alpha geeks" to determine emerging technology trends, and serves as a platform for advocacy about issues of importance to the technical community. For everything Tim, see tim.oreilly.com.

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Showing messages 1 through 12 of 12.

Gillmor link is broken
2003-10-24 09:57:40 anonymous2 [Reply | View]

It should be http://weblog.siliconvalley.com/column/dangillmor/archives/001429.shtml

You know there's a market for you, don't you?
2003-10-21 08:54:13 anonymous2 [Reply | View]

Having just bought a Nokia 3650 on Gnat's recommendation, I look forward to buying:

Nokia 3650 Hacks
S60 Programming: The Definitive Guide
J2ME Cookbook

Toss in
Programming Chandler
Ecco Hacks

and I'll be ready to roll my own!

Travel in Italy w/ my Treo
2003-10-21 07:47:51 Owen Densmore [Reply | View]

I was surprised how useful my Treo is here in Italy. I've been here for 5 weeks, and it keeps helping.

First of all, being a GSM/GPRS critter, it works here w/ international roaming. If you've tried phones here, its a joy to bypass the hassles and just beam back home w/ no hassle.

But the big surprise was mail. I gave a seminar at University of Bologna and had to communicate with my colleagues. But both apartments I rented had, alas, no phone lines! So what to do? Turns out that Snapper Mail on the Treo is really useful and useable. So I was able to use my standard email using just the phone.

Now this is all pretty tame, I admit, but when you're traveling, its really great to be able to get any help at all. Next stunt will be to use it as a modem for a reasonable cost.

Owen

walled garden mentality
2003-10-21 02:36:13 anonymous2 [Reply | View]

Sadly the networks still work in a semi walled garden mentality. It is not just the data plans but also access to the 'infrastructure' that inhibits a certain amount of 3rd party service development.

we have had no end of ideas, and a certain level of success in prototyping some of them, but to put them into production becomes prohibitive, especially if you have to go through making deals with the network operators (ie the cost is not in development but in the business and legal model).

All the networks (in the UK) do offer developer forums and i think some are moving over slowly, but they see this as releasing a major asset. Remeber SMS made them money. They bought the kit and then kept the profits. Now we are talking about sharing those profits significantly with 3rd parties and at the moment there is a reluctance to do that.

mark
www.nodalresearch.com

I already complained...
2003-10-20 22:24:55 Adam Trachtenberg [Reply | View]

I mentioned this to r0ml last week that hackers are going to T-Mobile instead of AT&T because they want cheap data plans. What's the point of buying a cool phone if it costs too much to use it?

I'm looking to buy a cell phone and AT&T stacks up better in everyway, except for data pricing.

I already complained...
2003-11-05 11:01:23 anonymous2 [Reply | View]

Where do you see this about T-Mobile and the 3650 with data plans? I just went to the T-Mobile site and they say they have no data plans for the 3650?
Thanks.

I already complained...
2003-11-05 18:34:45 Brian Jepson [Reply | View]

I believe you need to add it to a voice plan of $29.99 or more (go to www.t-mobile.com, choose Learn & Shop for Phones, select 3650, add a voice plan of $29.99 or more, and then you'll see "T-Mobile Internet Unlimited" for $19.99). I think you might be able to get a standalone data plan for that phone ($29.99/month), but the web site won't do it; you'll probably have to go into a store.

I already complained...
2003-11-10 06:22:34 anonymous2 [Reply | View]

And so what are the parameters about how AT&T and T-Mobile stack up against one another? Why do you say AT&T is better? Some examples? Thanks.

AT&T vs. T-Mobile
2003-11-10 14:31:46 Brian Jepson [Reply | View]

Although I'm not the same person who said that AT&T was better than T-Mobile, I have service from both companies, and here's what I've found:

It looks like AT&T Wireless will have higher data speeds by the end of the year, based on postings I've found on HowardForums. I know for a fact that they've turned on these higher speeds in some markets. To the best of my knowledge, T-Mobile doesn't have any plans to support these higher speeds anytime soon.

Every now and then, I have a problem making a connection to T-Mobile's GPRS service. It usually clears up when I retry the connection, and I've only had to call them once to gripe. AT&T Wireless has generally been more reliable, but not by much (and I had to call them once to gripe about a GPRS outage, too). It's entirely possible that some of these connection problems are between my computer and my phone (which I'm using as a modem), because sometimes rebooting both phone and computer fixes everything.

AT&T Wireless had (or is having) some serious customer service problems in late fall 2003. I tried to call and switch from the 4MB mMode plan to the 8MB mMode plan, and the customer service rep said that their system was down, changing the plan was impossible, and no one knew when the system would be back up. More info on the customer service system outage can be found here, but as of this writing, it looks like the outage had gone from about November 4th, 2003 to November 10th. MobileTracker has also reported on this outage.

The few times that I've needed to talk to people at T-Mobile, I haven't had any problems.

I think AT&T's customer service issues and occasional service glitches with both carriers are forgivable. But because of the pricing ($20/month vs. $80/month), I'm using T-Mobile for my GPRS data. If AT&T Wireless offered unlimited high-speed (EDGE @ 70+kbps) data for under $50 a month, I'd switch. However, if T-Mobile offered the same, it would be a toss-up. Right now, it's down to the price for me.

AT&T vs. T-Mobile
2003-11-10 20:40:08 Rael Dornfest [Reply | View]

Well put, Brian. Precisely what I'd have said and why I use T-Mobile. Also, some of the number portability shenanigans [http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/009961.php#009961] has T-Mobile feeling a little better than the others.

Thanks, and a few more?
2003-11-11 06:22:48 anonymous2 [Reply | View]

Thanks both of you for the info. Just a few more then?

>>It's entirely possible that some of these connection problems are between my computer and my phone (which I'm using as a modem)

You mean you're using the phone continuously as a modem, and have dispensed with the cable modem? That's great, if it's true. No wonder you're looking at the unlimited data price. :)

>>I'm using T-Mobile for my GPRS data

You mean you're accessing GPRS data, or you're developing and using it to test? Can you guys speak to whether you're into developing any and what you might be doing?

Last, can you say anything about the phones themselves? I'm looking at the Nokia 3650 because of it's video and Java capabilities, cause I'd like to get into developing with some Java MIDP and/or SVG. I know I've seen SVG running on the 3650, and from what I understand only the new Nokia 6600 supports MIDP 2 so far. Also, I see that the 3650 has "4" MB of memory, and a 16MB memory card. Is this upgradeable? Is it possible to run applications from the memory card? These and any and all other questions would much appreciate an answer. :)
Dan

Thanks, and a few more?
2003-11-11 06:26:14 anonymous2 [Reply | View]

Oh, and to answer my own post, basically am I missing any other phones that have video and/or Java capability, then? Thanks again, Dan.

Showing messages 1 through 12 of 12.

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