Information technologies are implicated in a worldwide and
world-historic crisis: falling employment. As the wealth of nations
increases, those who have lost jobs or had to accept menial ones over
the past three years are left with only a wealth of culprits to blame:
financial scandals, wars, tax cuts, stagnation, etc. But there is
little doubt that a large contributor to rising unemployment is rising
productivity, which in turn can be laid to advances in computerization
and communications. I can no longer avert my eyes from the
consequences of the field I have chosen, and no one else who programs,
administers, or promotes the use of computers can morally avert their
eyes either.
The gigantic combine of capitalism has always obsessively pursued
efficiency, and computers make the pursuit almost child play.
Capitalism has succeeded in sowing a cornucopia of innovation up and
down society. But capitalism is atrocious at distributing the fruits
of innovation. Each labor-saving device means the idling of thousands
of people, wasting their years of experience, rigorous training, and
practical insights.
People who work with computers remain fixated on efficiency. Every
week I hear the debates over whether businesses should use Linux or
Windows, the commentators always wrangling over which systems will
save the most money. I find this battle increasingly tiresome. I’m
more interested in finding the systems that will put more people to
work.
I have a sinking feeling that we can’t wait for the next upturn in the
employment cycle, as optimists would have us do. I sense that this
upturn may never come, unless people in a position to influence
innovation make a conscious effort to involve the worker. Anyone who
writes programs or plans system deployment should start thinking,
“What can I do to bring average people back into the process of wealth
creation?”
It is not my goal to place restrictions on investment or innovation;
it is only to present a new way of thinking that some people may find
stimulating. I am simply stretching a new canvas on which others may
spread their oils; I am not providing a frame for the canvas. Just to
illustrate what’s possible, though, I offer a few tentative
suggestions.
- Write free software for individual industries
-
A lot of programmers are pounding their treadmills in the free
software movement in order to create pleasant desktop experiences and
improve general-purpose applications. These help everybody and are
worthwhile in themselves, but think how society might benefit if a few
hundred of these programmers took a trip down to small, local,
cutting-edge businesses and asked the proprietors, “What would you
like on your computers to make you more productive?” And think of what
would happen if the programmers went on to write industry-specific
software that solved immediate, felt problems and distributed it for
free.Businesses can afford to pay for software. But small businesses cannot
pay as much as one would think, and specialized packages can be
incredibly expensive. Proprietary packages also suffer from
limitations, bugs, and lack of guarantees that they will meet user
needs. Free software opens more possibilities, and perhaps can drive
the expansion of job-creating businesses. - Make devices more responsive and easy to customize
-
Personal devices and cellular phones are growing in power and
complexity, particularly as Java applications become available, but
they still don’t provide the flexibility to augment the ordinary user
at work (as visionary Douglas Englebart first suggested in the
1960s). I would like a computer to plan ahead for me, track things
that are too much trouble for me to remember, and combine inputs to
suggest efficient courses of action. My desktop computer has software
to do some of that, but my cell phone does not. And soon I’ll be able
to have a dozen devices in my office with the hardware capability to
augment my intelligence–I’d like to have the software capability as
well.In the previous item I suggested very specialized software. But very
generalized software on cheap, available devices can also be
liberating. I am reminded of the power that desktop publishing
brought to ordinary writers in the 1980s, a power that made a social
force out of the same Apple Computer that is currently doing
innovative things to make a mass movement out of another medium with
even more relevance and social impact–video. It’s nearly impossible
to overestimate the advances that users can make when they are
presented with flexible, open-ended technologies. Maybe it can make
more of them into productive members of society.A key part of the solution is easy scripting languages. Current
languages always seem to develop tangled syntax; they look easy enough
for “Hello, world” applications, but as soon as you start to work with
real data and serious tasks into which you can sink your teeth, they
slap on braces and other indigestible characters. I want a scripting
language that is really simple enough for a kid to learn and powerful
enough to run a small business with. - Create a truly public key infrastructure
-
People have been trying to get corporate communications and
negotiations online for years, and probably the biggest beneficiaries
of such a move would be small businesses and individual contractors.
After all, who finds it hardest to pay travel costs and conference
room fees for expensive legal help?The move online has been held up by deep and serious problems in the
processes for validating users and dealing with such issues as
certificate revocation and non-repudiation–social aspects of
security, or what I call the social infrastructure for
technology. But perhaps we’re asking too much. Perhaps the average
user could be happy with a less universal and less ambitious system.When you want to contract with some professional or service, it might
be enough for you to verify that he or she is a dues-paying member in
good standing in some association. Individual associations could
provide authentication services for this. Perhaps a contract could be
sealed by the combination of recorded voice messages and a digital
signature on a computer file. We have to be flexible and creative.
Those ideas are here just to get people thinking. We don’t have all
the time in the world. Already, educated professionals are griping
about jobs moving to other countries, a form of heightened national
and racial tension that not only bring their own horrific consequences
but dampen the spirit of exploration that can raise everyone’s
opportunities. And meanwhile governments, businesses, venture
capitalists (what are you doing with all that money your pets in
Congress and the White House brought you, tails all awagging?),
universities, and NGOs seem paralyzed in the face of this economic
disaster.
There are precedents for this type of thinking. In the 1970s, a
movement called participatory design started in Scandinavia to develop
technologies that enhanced and strengthened workers’ skilled
contributions, instead of eviscerating them. I have written about
other elements of the program suggested here in earlier articles:
But a few good examples will promote change more than all the talk in
the world.
What can you do?


The sad truth is...
the vast majority of those folks that lost their jobs over the past three years shouldn't have had a job doing what they were doing in the first place and the (lack of) success of the companies that they worked for and the "products" they produced showed that. The amount of fly-by-night IT "professionals" that were born in the dot-com days was retarded. And now that companies are no longer hiring just to fill slots so that their company could break the 1000 employee mark in 30 days or less or so that the manager above them would be happy that they filled a position with "someone", people are looking for answers. As with any bad situation, there has been plenty of collatoral damage, with good IT folks getting the boot. But the vast majority of so called "technolgists" that are out of work really don't belong in the industry in the first place. Your article trying to "find a new place" for these folks is a sad attempt at trying to make them feel good about their situation. Maybe if they really want a job in the IT industry, they should build some real skills.
Wealth Creation...
A mitigating point you fail to take into account is that, if you are out of a job due to some efficiency increase, then, that's a _good_ thing for everybody (even you, indirectly and with a long view).
Once you get a new job, that means that more total work is being done (the work for your old job, plus the work for your new one): an increase in total work being done keeps prices low, and inflation low.
So, instead of griping about job moves, you have to move to a higher 'energy level' - get more education, get more efficient, be able to 'do more things'. I concur with the previous poster about the types of people being lain off - don't let this be you - don't get comfortable even if you have a job, always get better. If you don't grow, you die, and in our world of 3-5 year cycles, you can shrivel up and die in about 3-5 years. If you only do one thing, one cycle is all it takes to kill you. If you can do 1000 things...you're much more resistent.
Interestingly, a side note: this is least good for 'opportunistic investors' (aka .COM millionares) - those people who look for 'inefficiencies' in the market place and invest in them (create new companies to exploit the inefficiency, etc). But it's overall good for blue-chips.
Posters living in another universe
I've got an honours degree in computer science, and ten years of software development experience at all levels (from programmer to analyst to team leader to project manager). I'm still hands-on. I'm highly mobile (worked in three countries so far). I don't expect a huge salary.
Can I get a job? No. Have a tried? Only every day for the last year.
Am I not educated enough? Do I not have enough experience? Do I not apply for enough jobs?
I cannot get a job because there aren't any jobs, and there aren't any jobs because they are all moving to China and India. I have first hand experience of this, like many others in my situation.
I'm sick of hearing people say "get more education", "become more flexible", "be mobile", "accept a lower salary", etc. Shut up! It makes no difference at all. Wait until you lose your job, then your attitude will change.
It's kinda like the tobacco industry
Say that the majority of the world smartened up, and quit smoking tobacco. All the people who currently produce it, farmers, transporters, growers, shippers, and so on, would be unemployed.
Would this be considered a bad thing? I think not. Those people should themselves train and find another job on their own, instead of waitnig for the inevitable. But of course, majority of the world will not smarten up, thus the tobacco industry continues.
But this only serves a further point. Everyone who works knows roughly when their time is coming. If you sit there doing nothing most of your time, or are trying to look busy, or are finding thigns to do that are NOT in your job description, just to keep occupied, then you sir have gotten comfortable, and you sir should leave.
Posters living in another universe
you can program right?
so start programming. There are countless things that consumers would pay for that aren't there yet.
Instead of bitching that nobody is GIVING you a job, make your own job, make your own company. The alternative is apparently to bitch about not getting a job.
You either get stuff handed to you on a platter, or you steal somebody else's platter, but you always have the option of hunting on your own and making your platter, to such a point that if you're THAT GOOD, you can make enough platters for others too!
RE:The sad truth is...
actualy if you look at it, IT is _not_ the only sector that is suffering horribly. It's the bad manufacturing market (thanks NAFTA, Hello FTAA) it's the trend toward low paying service jobs, less benifits and all that. Total job numbers is not the only thing that matters.
So think carefully before you say that people don't deserve work.
For the first poster. Your comments that efficeny increases are a good thing are partialy true. They do meen that less people can do the same type of work. However, the "higher energy" jobs that you are saying people should somehow magicaly gravitate into do not just appear. The economy is stagnating right now, and most new jobs that are being created are actualy LOWER energy. Not to mention that unless you had an extremely safe position and managed to save up a cushion, it's very very hard to retrain without help, so more people end up going to lesser paying jobs anyway.
More Jobs?
What kind of an idiot would want to create "MORE JOBS"? What kind of bizarre ethic do we as Americans have where we want to do what we can to create more work for ourselves? Why not demolish a building so we can build it up again? Why not smash all the windows in your house so you can work at replacing them?
The technological revolution SHOULD be doing two things to increase the quality of life for people everywhere. It should a) make tasks simpler so they can be done more quickly and we can be freed up FROM WORK to learn and grow and spend time with our families and friends, and b) it should distribute wealth more equally, which, as you mentioned, capitalism is terrible at doing.
There needs to be a revolution in government so that we can all experience the positive time-saving effects of technology, not just the negative ones such as superpower corporations and finantial inequality.
Eliminate the GPL
As anyone who's familiar with its history is aware, the purpose of the GPL is to ensure that programmers cannot create wealth in any way, shape or form. It's designed to undercut their markets, prevent them from benefiting from incremental improvements they make to the technology, and "ban" them (Stallman's own words) from making adequate livelihoods.
Andy, if you believe that programmers should have decent jobs, you must condemn the deceitful mechnism by which they're being destroyed.
More Jobs?
word.
Easier Said Than Done
Sure you can program some cool new application, but it takes a lot of money and effort to market that and sell it, especially to the point where you can make a living on it, and then to cover the debts you incurred while writing the software.
I know, I've taken that path. I have some amazing pieces of software I've made, but I'm a programmer, not a salesman, and they sit collecting dust. Meanwhile I had to get a job to pay the rent.
The sad truth is...
for every IT person laid off, how many marketroids, graphic designers, secretaries, copy editors, ditchdiggers, technical writers, janitors, department store clerks, electricians, teachers, plumbers, lumberjacks, paralegals, meatpackers, accountants, street cleaners, translators and steelworkers have lost jobs in the last twenty-five years, and how many of those got jobs back in the same fields?
The unemployment issue is not just in the IT world, and in fact we are only the latest to feel it. After efficiency gains are realized in a marketplace, the number of slots for workers in that marketplace is permanently reduced until the marketplace gets bigger. You either attain one of those slots, find another marketplace, or starve.
Oram is looking at the bigger picture
I applaud Oram for discussing a very troubling trend that transcends the issue of particular kinds of skilled workers trying to get particular kinds of jobs in IT.
It IS fundamental problem with a crude capitalist economic system. Capitalism itself can be a very good thing within a social system that also promotes and maintains important human values. But naked, unrestrained capitalism is a freaking nightmare. If we are not careful, the United States will head back to the ugly days of the 19th century, when vast numbers of people lived in misery and exploitation (and thereby join a good part of the rest of the world today).
As a software developer, I have often noted the rather limited appreciation of political history among IT people. I hope this can change in the years ahead, because we do have the power to influence the direction that things will go. The problem is that it takes a very long term view, because improving the education and economic capability of a society takes decades, not years.
One area that I would suggest to the open-source desktop coders is bioinformatics. It is an incredibly challenging and potentially hugely rewarding area that needs a lot more people.
William Knight
willkn@montana.com
Eliminate the GPL
you aren't just wrong, you are flat out idiotic if you trully mean that.
the purpose of the GPL is not to prevent wealth, it's to prevent something else entirely.
Nothing prevents someone from hiring me to build them code. Nothing, the GPL doesn't stop that. The GPL simply ensures that if I get payed for using GPL'ed code, that the GPL code itself benefits from my work, whcih it does, unless I break the GPL and disregard it by not releasing my changes back to the open source community. Which I always do. And that means, if I keep using GPL for my work, and I keep finding work for myself, without waiting for the job market to GIVE ME A JOB, then I am in effect using other people's money to build GPL code.
Think about that for a change. I am actively building GPLed code and getting payed at the same time. All in the name of open source, and the businesses never know. How's that?
Wealth is not the same as Prosperity
Those who note the general maxims of economists everywhere consider the current economy a blazing success. However economics is not usually considered on the far-macro level. You need Consumers who reap the benefits to claim you have improved everyone's life. Thus Henry Ford paid enough for people to buy his cars. Instead, anything that lowers the number or quality of consumers can depress the net economy. That's why deflation is bad overrall. No rich person can become a "Mega-Consumer" who will return enough jobs for all the money they have gathered for their own use. The only folks who did this were the filthiest of despots or kings, and their jobs were legendarily foul or maddening.
You may say "But what about money lent, cheaply, to new businesses?" Investment and innovation are great things but plateaus and dry-spots where no new innovation is possible due to saturation require incredible hardship on the rank-and-file. (Thus did we move Westward back to the stone age in the US, and thus we changed from Manufacturing to Service economies, and thus we now have gone from lifelong employment to constant change).
Averages don't matter for the rest of us. Medians do. Many many many types of economic Pareto-improvements produce net lowering of the median income. You can depress an island economy if all fish are now monopolized by one fellow with the only hi-tech boat and nets. No one else will be able to buy one unless they disrupt the system or are allowed to expand into unused resources (which, given current progress is a limited possibility for the rank and file... if its not built or done overseas).
...Or do those who disagree with the above some strange religious belief that "love of Money" (i.e. cheap prices for those with money) is always better than love of benefits for all?
More Jobs?
why create more jobs?
Because not everyone like ssitting on their big fat asses smoking a joint and watching reruns of Fast and The Furious. Some people wouldn't mind destroying an old, bug ridden building built in 1940s, and in it's place to build a sky scraper of atl east 3 times it's height, to house 3 times as many people, and have in building fiber, of course, without all the asbestos and mold from the older building.
This is why some people want to make more jobs. Because contrary to the popular belief, there is a lot of work to do.
There's a lot of jobs to be made, or let me rephrase that, there's a lot of problems in the world that can get resolved if they were made into jobs.
More Jobs?
You missed the point.
It isn't to create more jobs for ourselves by building shoddy product or tearing apart that which is good or by constantly reinvinting the wheel. Microsoft have already proven that this technique works, and they are hated for it.
Read the article again, and you will find that the value added in writing free software, particularly software oriented to a specific industry, can improve the environment for small business. I think this is very important, because small business stokes the LOCAL economy.
Eliminate the GPL?
You're absolutely right about the GPL preventing people from making money. It creates advances in technology without advances in profit to small sectors.
But is this a bad thing? It's quickly increasing the ability of more people to get more done at a lower cost. Meanwhile, Bill Gates masses a ridiculous amount of money by owning and selling his software. What's better? The increase of efficiency for billions or the increase of billions (of dollars) for one?
Imagine someone develops a machine that provides all the energy a home needs. What's better for people? That it's distributed to everyone at cost? Or that capitalism has its way, and it's made so that you pay a monthly fee, need replacement parts, and have to upgrade it every year?
Posters living in another universe - An idea
Quit crying, you're making me ill.
There are jobs out there, perhaps not those which fit you're currently idealistic viewpoint on life. The people that say "get more education", "become more flexible", "be mobile", "accept a lower salary", etc. are right on par with what you should indeed be considering at the moment.
Easier Said Than Done
If you have any money left after paying the rent, I suggest you hire a salesman. They can do the selling / lead opening for you, and if your software sells, you'll have an extra income.
There are lots of salesmen out there desperate for work as well as IT people, I'm sure you could find a half decent one that would work mainly for commission.
Easier Said Than Done
so does your current job require you to work 24 hours a day? Doubtful, so get off your playstation-playing ass and do something about it for a few hours each day after work, rather than cry to the employment Gods about how bad your life is right now.
More Jobs?
Yup, we having been creating labor saving devices for hundreds of years now and yet Americans are still working an average of 50 hour weeks and that doesn't include things like house work, yard work, working out, ... Before I quit my job, it seemed like I could work every waking moment and still never catch up.
Americans laugh at the French for pushing 35 hour work week so that labor can be split up more evenly, I don't understand why we aren't doing that... look at the types of jobs the people you know are doing, if most of them stopped doing their jobs, would anyone notice? We need food, shelter, medical treatment, but so much of what Americans spend their time doing is so worthless... it's time to relook at our economy and realize that endlessly increasing consumer spending will not solve our problems.
Dave
What a dumbass.
Each labor-saving device means the idling of thousands of people, wasting their years of experience, rigorous training, and practical insights.
Let us apply this to the agricultural industry. At the time of the American Revolution, 97% of the labor force was involved in food production; i.e. it took more than 38 people to provide food for 40 people.
These days, the proportion is more than reversed; only 2 and a trifle% of the population is now required. So 1 person feeds the same 40 people as 38 did then, roughly.
Now, substitute in this article the 37 out of 40 who have lost their jobs in agriculture due to efficiency improvements, and moan and wail about how awful THAT is.
Sounds pretty stupid, right?
Well, whining about IT job losses makes you not one whit less of a dumbass, because the situations are precisely analagous.
(As a matter of fact, in my individual case they are not an analogy at all -- I was raised a dairy farmer, moved into programming when small-scale farms like ours became uneconomic, and if I have to move again, what of it? But you don't hear me whining like these dumbasses about how awful it is that programming jobs are disappearing, any more than I whined about dairy farms disappearing, which is 'not even a tiny little bit'.)
More Jobs?
I completely agree. I think that the point of technology has been completely lost in our culture. And I do blame capitalism. Technology exist (at least in my world) or should exist to better the quality of life at ALL levels of society not to provide a new gizmo or gadget. If some new time saving widget becomes available than it should be used to simply free a person's time for more humanistic interests such as education, family, travel, etc. It doesn't mean doubling the amount of "work" the person needs to produce.
More Jobs?
You imagine the only alternative to working for the man is to sit at home getting high? Maybe you have a great job where you can be creative and innovative, but most Americans work tedious jobs shuffling papers, taking food orders, and the like.
Freed from such labor, I imagine an explosion of creativity, innovation, and human contact that would be far better for the world as a whole than a few extra reports, or trying to squeeze a few more dimes out of every consumer.
Wealth Creation...
I'd like to shake this poster's hand, as he is right on par with reality. Long term, job "migrations" have never resulted in a permanent work-shortage in our country. Rather, new industries and thus jobs have sprung out of the void. This process has repeated itself throughout our country's history, and will certainly do so again with the current move of certain IT sectors overseas.
As IT workers, we must constantly reevaluate our skillset, and make improvements/adjustments when necessary. Otherwise, one day you will surely find yourself out of a job, and you'll have _nobody_ (not your employer, not India, not China) to blame but yourself.
jason
Free Software
I don't know about anyone else, but I always envisioned Free software and efficiency in the workplace as a way of driving towards a society where the majority of people work not so that they can provide for their basic needs, but so that they can contribute to society. Maybe that sounds a bit socialist, but I'd love to live in a world where I could write programs just because it makes someone elses work easier, not so that I could pay my rent.
Easier Said Than Done
After you write your cool app make a website go to local IT events and talk to people post your application as a news story on Slashdot (make sure you have a good web host first!). Respond to government or private RFPs. Sell it cheap to schools and libraries. There's lots of ways to get the word out about new software. Did Bill Gates start with a slick sales force?
Easier Said Than Done
After you write your cool app make a website go to local IT events and talk to people post your application as a news story on Slashdot (make sure you have a good web host first!). Respond to government or private RFPs. Sell it cheap to schools and libraries. There's lots of ways to get the word out about new software. Did Bill Gates start with a slick sales force?
GPL not the cause
The GPL is not the cause of the poor job situation that we see today. The purpose of the GPL is to help establish a public infrastructure which has no barriers of entry.
Commercial software can be built on top of the free infrastructure, such as Sun's StarOffice, Borland's Kylix, IBM's DB2 and Oracle's database software.
The advantage of having a public infrastructure is that you and I can have a try at selling software that runs on it, this is in contrast to a proprietry infrastructure where the owners of the infrastructure can prevent you from creating interoperable software.
The main reasons why jobs are harder to find now are :
1. Over Supply. Everyone thought in the 1990's that they could be a millionaire by writing a VB app from thier garage. Hence too many people joined the field.
2. The whole IT sector was hyped too much, causing unrealistsic investments and now it is becoming more realistic.
3. Outsourcing. Much IT work is going to countries where the skill level is high and the salary levels are low.
These reasons significantly outweigh any other factors such as the GPL as you tried to argue.
Hear! Hear!
Sweet. Well said.
And the same can be said for the telemarketing industry in regards to the "Do Not Call List". Yes, tons of jobs will be lost (I hope!) but the productivity will move into other (hopefully less annoying) areas.
More Jobs?
>>There needs to be a revolution in government so that we can all experience the positive time-saving effects of technology
Does the government tell you how to spend your money? Why not be the agent of change that YOU wish to see in the world, instead of thinking the government is going to come and save you.
There needs to be a revolution in consumerism on the part of everyone. Live below your means and sock away some money, then you can spend LOTS of time with your friends and family.
Posters living in another universe
I think that is the point of the article. You need to create a job out of nothing, i.e. wealth creation.
A common misconseption about wealth is that it is a finite thing. If one person gets rich, another must get poor. This is not true. We create wealth everyday when we work. We turn sand into microchips. With enough people, microchips are cheap. You can think of it as the cost of microchips going down, or you can think of it as your average wealth going up, i.e. you can buy more with less. It's the same thing. Make something new and you help everybody. Even if you don't get money, it makes the cost of everything else go down.
More Jobs?
I do. But the 40-hour-a-week or nothing job market makes living in the middle a bit difficult.
More Jobs?
My job is as far from creative and innovative as it can be. Please don't assume things.
But first, give me a good reason why McDonald's doesn't have machiens that put the burgers together? If they did that, you can see it as either thousands of people losing their jobs, or thousands of people FREED to do other work.
It's all in your perspective. As far as jobs go, mine is as routine as making burgers.
Posters living in another universe
To the person who's not able to get a job:
Next time you go to the store and buy something, turn the product over and see if it says "Made In China". If it's cheap, it probably does. And then, just for comparison, try to find something that's "Made in USA". It will be more expensive, arguably without being that much better.
Which one are you going to buy? Will you be thinking about American workers you're helping by buying inferior and/or equivalent-but-more-expensive product? No. At least you shouldn't! You should buy what's better for YOU, the consumer. If it's cheaper you want, you should buy cheaper.
Companies are no different. They are consumers of services. They shouldn't care about the social good. They are busy enough trying to RUN THEIR OWN BUSINESS AND STAY IN BUSINESS. If you force companies to buy expensive services where they can get cheaper, they'll start lagging behind the competition (as in "foreign competition") and then even more people will be laid off.
As far as your personal situation is concerned, I have an idea for you: START YOUR OWN BUSINESS. (added benefit: hire anyone you want - if you prefer paying $90K to american programmers, go for it! Somehow I think you'll re-assess those priorities once you are a business owner).
Posters living in another universe
I've spent my career as a software developer(at all levels) at start-up companies. I've lost 2 jobs since 2001 because the companies went out of business. I haven't spent more than 3 months looking for a job, and each time I found myself making more money. The company I work for now has plenty of job openings for software developers and I interview about 3-4 candidates a week. The sad truth is that the talent level is low, really low. In fact, I've interviewed candidates who told me things like "I'm not prepared for a technical interview today" or "I don't know any of this computer science stuff, what's a linked list?". The search for talent is even harder than it was in the boom because people with stable jobs don't want to take a risk on a start-up in this economy. If one doesn't know about "computer science" stuff, perhaps a career in software development is a poor choice. If you are a software developer learn .Net, learn XML, learn Web Services, or learn Java. If your job can be expressed in a two page Word document, you are probably going to be offshored at some point.
Easier Said Than Done
No Bill Gates started with a lot of help from mommy. Who was associated with IBM when he licensed DOS to them. Not to mention that daddy also put up a large bit of money for him.
Free Software
What a wonderful idea!
Free Software
Yeah it's called a meritocracy.
The 24th century which StarTrek the next generation is based in has done away with money. The people contribute to the greater whole of Society or in StarTrek's case the universe.
Hear! Hear!
I think the author may be seeking something of a more inclusive and open work force / computing infrastructure, or at least that is what I would look for and what would be a component of a free/open approach. After all, there is a movement back towards small scale farming as factory farming may have some drawbacks, maybe we could avoid disasters arising from only specialists really knowing how things work.
Easier Said Than Done
I can understand what a leap it is to go from working to creating work, that is from working for the Man to working for yourself. They say it's easy to bungie jump. But if you've never done it, that first step is always to most difficult. Starting a company is no different.
I've started 3 companies. Each was difficult. But programmers such as yourself are special. You have the ability to create something out of nothing but what you envision. That is special--it is a gift that should be harnessed. In business parlance, programmers are wealth creators, or can be if they take the step to start their own shop.
I recommend you email Hardy Macia at hardy@catamount.com. His story, which can be found at his catamount.com website, might be helpful. Hardy can offer pointers, one programmer to another, that only someone who has run their own shop for many years, which most here cannot.
But one thing he will say is this. You have to make the choice to take the talents, which people like me only have in small bits, and turn those talents into a marketable product that you can sell. You will not be a millionaire overnight. But you will start earning money, which over time will increase from month to month. The shareware market is allot like drilling a wildcat well. Sometimes you hit one out of the park, your application reaches a tipping point, and the rewards are yours. VersionTracker is a good place.
One question you will have to ask comes from the world of marketing. What community, market, do you want to introduce your product to? You have 3 markets right now: Windows, Linux, and OS X. Which market will your application(s) have the best chance of standing out? Windows is big, but customers are overloaded with new titles each month making it harder for your new app to find a base. The freeware community of Linux possibly would undercut your efforts to make a living. OS X is small but growing and, like Linux, the developement tools are free once you've paid for the machine.
As a very recreational programmer now, though I once worked at JPL as a C++ developer, I will say in OS X's favor that developing an OS X app is many times easier than on any other platform--I know that sound like typical marketing bull, but it's not. The integration between XCode and Interface Builder, and the foundation of code that NeXT and subsequently Apple have built with Obj-C and Obj-C++ makes life easy enough for someone like me to whip out a cool app for my nephews in a week, something I couldn't do on the Windows or Linux platforms, based on my past experience. What does this mean to you? The less time it takes to develope, the more time you have to sell your application.
Please write Hardy.
Jim
What a dumbass.
You?re absolutely correct!
Historically automation has ALWAYS increased the number of jobs. Look at the textiles industry, a few hundred years ago there were literal riots in the streets because tailors were afraid of loosing their jobs to the new automatic loom and sewing machines. And for a brief period of time many did, but then the textile industry exploded, suddenly people realized they could afford more than one outfit.
The same is happening again right now! So what if a few people have gotten laid off b/c some idiot (probably the author) decided to invest in mail order concrete. (I was also laid off and felt the effects of the current job market.)
A 2% annual increase in productivity will double the standard of living every 20 years. So next time you feel like whining about automating people out of jobs, pause and look at your house. It?s because of that automation that your kids will be able to afford a house twice as big.
So shut up and get back to work!
JohnJake
exports?
"it took more than 38 people to provide food for 40 people."
The colonies were exporters of agricultural products, and in fact were restricted from various industries by protectionist policies.
It most certainly did not take 38 people to provide food for 40 --- even if 97% of the working population was in agriculture, as always only a fraction of the population is in the labor force. I don't think agricultural productivity has ever been so low that the surplus would only support 2 in 40 people since the invention of agriculture.
The larger questions are: what kind of technological progress is beneficial and what kind is harmful? How do we collectively decide what kinds of technology will make us better off?
But I guess only a "dumbass" would think to ask such questions.
Well, free software is doing that in a way
Many people right now are working hard to get the concept of free software accepted. We are almost there, but big business and governments are not fully on board yet.
I am coming to the realization that software is like other raw materials used to build things. Combine this idea with the realization that technology trickles down and some interesting possibilities come to light.
Do we all have our homes built and repaired by the large contractors? No. Some of us do it ourselves, others hire the local folks to do it, and some have it done by the big boys.
In the construction economy, there is room for all of us to generate wealth.
This is the battle free software is fighting for the software industry. It needs to happen before your vision can come to pass.
Lets say we win that one and free software is recognized as it should be. People then will begin to do the same sorts of things they do in other parts of their lives.
Want a PVR? You can go to best buy and build one. Maybe you want one that does specific things, or that interconnects with your other home computing systems. Hire the local computer tech to make it happen. Want a bit more of a challenge? Do it yourself.
In the near future, I hope to see these sorts of things happen. The growing body of free software can be used as other raw materials can to build things that people need. The builders might be programmers, or might just be experts in what works and what doesn't.
As technology continues to trickle down, these people will increasingly be the common people you speak of. If these people can make use of free software, much wealth will be generated through the simple value they can provide those that needed.
So, there it is. Software as carpentry. It might not get you your spiffy cell phone, but it will get a lot of people one hell of a lot closer to the promise the large software companies are selling them right now; provided the established interests do not win by placing the law in front of this potential.
Posters living in another universe
Try government jobs or workig for the defense /aerospace industry. These jobs won't move overseas.... and the automobile industry looks like a good place to work now too. I weren't no honors student, and I didn't have any experience but I found a job after not too long of a search because I knew where to look :)
32-hour workweek
History already has an answer.
Technology revolutions have occurred before.
The prior two industrial revolutions produced a 15-20% reduction in the average workweek. There's several other issues that flow from that, such as a collapse in real estate values, but they resolve themselves.
Posters living in another universe - An idea
I think you also forget that not everyone is in the high tech field.
My fiancee has a Bachelors degree in History and a Master Degree in American Studies. She wants to teach, which requires a teaching certification, which means more school.
Without a certification, there are not a lot of jobs that match her field. She has been out of work for the past year. She has looked day in and day out getting discouraged to no end.
How to you solve the job problem for people like this?
Does that mean she should drop her ambitions of being a helpful part of educating our future generations to improve society? I think not.
Let's faces...there is no wealth in K-12 education.
All the wealth now a days seems to be in the pockets of the mega corporations. These corporations need to spend this wealth more to help produce jobs, or else I think that taxing them more might be a way gaining money to spend to produce jobs...
There is no easy solution.
Wealth Creation...
I am more of a constant learning programmer type, but in support of the original statement about job loss being "bad," job cuts (and hirings) are not always rational.
Some jobs should be operationalized, as i think is good to have some settled specialists, as opposed to expecting everyone to become a workaholic.
More Jobs? MORE OWNERSHIP!!!!
Yes, there always will be problems to solve. That is not the issue. But thinking stricly in terms of jobs is limited thinking. Try thinking in terms of ownership instead.
Would you rather produce, or own the means of production?
The owners do not have to work when the "job" gets automated.
The fundamental difference between Capitalism and Communism is WHO are the owners. In Capitalism you choose what you own; problems arise when ownership is inequitable. In Communism, everybody owns everything by birthright; problems arise because there's little incentive to fix problems.
-- Everything is complex, but not infinitely complex.
What a dumbass.
The jobs are moving because the politicians are disloyal bastards who make a big show of their false patriotism.
At the end of the day, a lobbyists check from India is just as good as a lobbyist check from a weak trade union, or collective lobbying from Unemployed (yeah, right).
Posters living in another universe - An idea
I got more education, personally. And suddenly, I was unemployably OVERqualified. Sigh.
Paid for GPL
Well, you may be creating a problem there. I hope that everytime you work on these jobs, that whoever is paying you makes no claim to your code.
You say "the businesses never know...."
Never know what? That you broke the GPL when you "sold" them rights to do whatever they want with the code you gave them?
I use GPL in solo jobs all the time and often submit changes back to maintainers for review, but you can bet EVERY employer I do this with knows exactly what they're getting. I make them explicitly agree in writing that they divest all ownership of any source or other IP claims so that I am free to give back to community without causing problems. Now, every once and a while a situation will arise where what I'm adding in includes some implementation of the company-in-question's IP and we have to write in an exception to the rule. But the basic contract should state that any exceptions must be outlined in a specific document detailing the extent of the IP and the master contract must sepeartely be amended to reflect the names of the files containing the IP to be restricted.
If you just wave your hands at that and use software libre at your discretion without making sure the recipients are aware of the nature of the source and its implications, you are doing a double disservice... one to freedom itself by not promoting the cause where it needs to be known the most and two to your employer by possibly misleading him regarding what you have provided for your pay.
Eliminate the GPL
I can't agree. You're perfectly able to use gpl
tools to do something which will make you money.
You can argue that a free hammer is going to
make you less able to build things. In fact,
I submit it makes you more able to make a living.
If I could get free tools it would remove one
barrier to my getting a job as a construction
worker. If I had more tools I could better
do that job.
Efficiency and commerce
More efficient means allows smaller companies. Those whose jobs are threatened need to think entrepreneurially, and start their own firms.
More Jobs?
"a) make tasks simpler so they can be done more quickly and we can be freed up FROM WORK "
Reality check time!
If my boss discovers that my job has been made simpler by technology and that I can complete my present work in less time, will he:
1) Tell me to take some extra paid time off!
2) Tell me to go browse O'Reilly Blogs!
3) Tell me that he has some extra work for me!
4) Fire me, and give my (easier) work to somebody else (who like me, has time on their hands)!
Go ahead, pick one.
What a dumbass.
This works if you have an expanding market. I think the IT field does have some growth room left to expand, but eventually, you will hit capacity, and people will be left out in a dead end industry (Forestry anyone?).
As for the productivity improvements, it is fine to be more productive, but I could care less if my material house is twice as big (inflation would make that house a lot smaller). If I am working like a drudge just because it's the status quo, and I hate my life and I can't escape, there is no benefit to me. Take valley many people for example. Did any Valley people really feel happy working 80 hour work weeks regardless of how much they were making?
Posters living in another universe
If the talent level is low, should you not raise it a little? For example, make more of a point to interview C/S graduates from an accrediated university program. I'm pretty sure THEY will know what a linked list is!
Luddite bullshit
This same chicken-little crap has been expressed for centuries, and centuries of history and experience amply demonstrate what a load of crap it is.
The sad truth is...
What nonsense. Does a PhD in Information Science, masters in computer engineering, bachelors in CS and mathematics and several years experience as a software engineer make me a part of the "vast majority of so-called technologists that are out of work and really don't belong in the industry in the first place?"
I've given my heart and soul to this damned industry and gotten nearly nothing in return. I'm beginning to think it was all just a scam and I was a sucker.
Oram is looking at the bigger picture
I disagree with your conception of unrestrained capitalism. Unrestrained capitalism is far superior to unrestrained statism, that is for sure! No one alive today even knows what unrestrained capitalism means and the people writing the history books only tell us that it was bad. The same people who write those histories are big government statists today. Are their viewpoints trustworthy at all? How do we know that getting the state completely out of the rgulatory business would result in the kinds of abuses purported to have taken place during the 19th and early 20th centuries? I feel that the current downturn has a great deal to do with over regulatoin and monetary inflation.
Can computers help reverse falling employment?
Gack!
Its the same old same old complaint. Look at all those poor ignorant slobs who have lost their jobs because of X. Boo Hoo ... we must take care of them. You may do so if you wish. I won't lift a finger coming to their aid unless I can profit from it.
At the turn of the last century there was also a crisis in employment. The number of people needed to grow food and fiber had greatly diminished. Today, 2% of the US population can and does feed a very large fraction of the world's population. Imagine all of those poor farm workers who lost their jobs to the mechanization of farming.
Ditto for automation.
Ditto for the information age.
Ditto for the post-information age.
Its time for today's workers to figure out how they are going to create wealth by adding value as a consequence of their efforts. It is not the responsibility of the productive worker to give away his ideas and product so some damn parasite can live off it without thought, effort, or contribution.
32-hour workweek
Yeah, and one of those was followed closely by the Great Depression.
Fun.
Luddite bullshit
you must be unemployed. lol.
Free Software
You have to be joking. This lah dee dah utopia of everyone working for everyone elses benefit is a pipe dream. There is only one way to motivate people to produce. To reward that production with both the output and the gains from trade of that output.
Posters living in another universe
ironically my job is writing software to automate a refining process that makes your sand out of big ass rocks, so really you should say, turning rocks into microchips...
It is not the responsibility of industries or governments to emply people. In the future, its quite possible that only a tiny number of people will need to work.
As a society, we need to face that fact and deal with it. It will require a massive change in how people support themselves and how we see ourselves and our value.
It may mean the end of money or jobs as we know them.
Why does that scare so many people? Its the whole point of technology to free people from mundane, repretitive jobs.
Can computers help reverse falling employment?
Bravo!
You just demonstrated the laziness and greed of the corporate elite much better than I could have ever described it.
The solution is obvious. Tax away a good chunk of the assets of these lazy, greedy people in order to rebuild some infrastructure as well as finance scientific research so that we can make the scientific breakthroughs that will employ our workforce.
62-hour workweek
Thats not true. What has happened is that fewer numbers of people work more, resulting in increased poverty for many. Hunter-gatherers worked an average of 4-6 hrs a day. The rest of the day was spent imparting (verbal) knowledge to ones children, preparing food, etc. These days, many of us are lucky to even see their children, let alone teach them. Our society rewards capitalists with the surplus of labor. The laborers will continue their race to the bottom until machines make them all obsolete. Then we all will be free. ;)
Well, free software is doing that in a way
So where exactly are all of these 'free' hammers coming from? I want to go to this 'free raw materials' world where people can afford to make software and give it away with no other means of income. If it's something that can be that easily given away, then it's probably not a very wise thing to base a career off of, unless you add value to the proposition. Coders need to learn how to provide value to their services/organizations rather than just let themselves be victims of trends.
Posters living in another universe
It's a genuine shame that you haven't found gainful employment over the last year - really. I feel for you. I've been pretty lucky over the last few years.
I'm personally embarrased at the level of animosity exhibited by the other respondents to your post. With that kind of attitude held by the fortunate toward the less fortunate, I fear NO solutions to our problems are forthcoming.
And I'm no commie. I have an Ivy League education and was fortunate to have been CEO of a very, very profitable technology firm for many years.
How can we find solutions together when no one wants to? Even in the grim depths of the recession during the 1970's, there was still a sense of an American society and community that could face challenges together. Now we are in the grip of a mean spirited ideology that has turned us against ourselves. God help us to remind ourselves that no man is an island.
Outsource social services!
What we should do is pay countries like China to take all of our poor unemployed people and give them jobs there. By limiting the free marketplace of labor we are protecting our labor market, making both wages and cost of living unnaturally high.
People should also be able to utilize the magic of the marketplace to select what politicians they want to live under. By trapping markets of political consumers in countries such as America, we are virtually guaranteeing disasters like the one we are seeing.
But the corporate interests like trapped consumers, just look at the pharmaceutical and motion picture industries for example. But you cant have partial free markets like what we have now in the US without major problems from limited competition. We need to fight the corporate vested interests that limit our freedoms.
Eliminate the GPL
Where are these free hammers and free raw materials everyone keeps talking about? Last time I checked, the stores were charging money for computers, and I seem to recall getting bills for electric service needed to run the computer.
Last time I asked a construction person, they had to buy their tools or they were employer-supplied. Employer-supplied in my mind seems to imply that a job was involved.
I have a job, which allows me the opportunity to create things in my downtime - what there is of it - but if I didn't, I think Maslow's hierarchy would take over.
Posters living in another universe - An idea
This is 100% b/s -- "idealistic viewpoint" etc. my @ss... Telling people that what they are feeling and experiencing is not only completely bogus and untrue, it also does not do anything to help the situation. We do not get qualified persons out of a jobless situation by berating them for being frustrated or throwing smug cliches in their direction. We get qualified persons out of a jobless situation by offering useful and practical solutions or else at least shutting the hell up and letting them be frustrated at what is, in reality, a frustrating situation. If you can't stand to hear someone's "cries" then get the f*ck off their feet and quit stomping their toes whenever someone or something else sticks them in the ribs, OK? People with your attitude are part of the problem, never part of the solution, and that goes for ALL arenas of life -- the political, social, academic, financial, you name it. If you all are SOOOOO f*cking perfect that (a) nothing ever goes wrong for you and (b) even if it does you NEVER get bothered by it, then why haven't you been mysteriously "translated" up to heaven already -- get the hell off this planet and stop needling and berating people who are just trying to survive and figure out their problems and make sense of senseless things, OK?
I personally have not been affected -- YET -- by all the outsourcing overseas, dearth of I.T. jobs, etc. -- but I know good and well it COULD be me, just like it could happen to anyone else. And I'm not half as talented or educated in my field as the person whom you took it upon your oh-so-pristinely-perfect self to berate for expressing frustration over a frustrating situation. So if the proverbial poo hits the fan for my job I know my chances could be even less than his (hers?) and that's why I care. Empathy is something psychologists think we develop around age 6 or so ... you know ... the ability to recognize that any given thing that happens to another could conceivably happen to yourself and therefore a measure of understanding and compassion is in order toward those who are having a hard time of something.
Now about the subject at hand (this article) instead of all this hash-slanging crap ... maybe I didn't read it thoroughly enough but it sounded to me like the primary thrust of it was to suggest folks in I.T. give something back by looking for opportunities to proactively do some "pro-bono" work that will help small businesses get on their feet and create more jobs. A decent enough idea, but I don't think it's enough to solve all the problems. Nor do I think I need to feel guilty or personally responsible for the fact that some technological advances have streamlined productivity and resulted in persons being put out of work. There are potential advances that could put me out of work as well; it's up to me to proactively advance my career by learning and growing and developing new skills. On the other hand I don't appreciate the imbalance created by the 3rd-world outsourcing trend; it's I.T. sweatshopping, plain and simple, and just as unconscionable. Equally unconscionable are the idiots who bark that complaining we can't afford to compete by offering ourselves at $8 an hour means we are all suffering from attitudes of arrogance and entitlement. Bullshit. I didn't set real estate, utility, transportation and food costs at the level they are in this country, thus necessitating a certain minimum income merely to survive. The Washington Post published a chart a couple Sundays ago showing that the national average income needed in the USA for a modest housing solution (2 bedroom rental unit) is $15.37 per hour. In certain larger cities such as NY, DC, LA, etc. this average was over $23 per hour. So people slamming others for having "entitlement-head" because they are saying "look, we are not saying we are BETTER than some other programmer across the globe, we simply cannot LIVE on $8 per hour!". It's the truth. And anyone trying to distract by creating blamemongering strawmen designed to fault those who are being negatively impacted (I REFUSE to give you types the satisfaction of using the "V" word!!!) by these things is living in some sort of delusion and trying to choke everyone else on it. Either that or they are trying to hide from plain sight the plain truth: the major problem here is global, with 51% of the wealth in the hands of 1% of the population, and the fact that when business and government get in bed together, the offspring is oppression and grinding the middle class into increasing poverty out of nothing more than greed, plain and simple.
The solution is virtual pr0n
You want to see real job creation, wait till you can drop a bubble dvd into a slot to experience Britney. Now that's a real growth industry.
Job market
I think all you people complaining about how bad the job market is should take some time out from griping and go apply somewhere. In the past 6 months things have picked up dramatically, all across the U.S. People are just so busy complaining they haven't noticed.
Maybe ...
... we should all just move to India and be done with it. LOL.
Real people, real problems - Here and Now
I'm a lover of abstractions and economic dynamics, but we're talking about real people, real communities - flesh and blood.
You may have to break a few eggs to make an omellete, but people aren't eggs.
A formal economic market system may solve many problems, but not all of them. Should we express disdain toward Christian charity because it doesn't serve profit? Should the US government provide no disaster relief to our allies during times of natural disaster and crisis - because the all-Holy "Market" will eventually solve the problems?
I have been priveleged to speak with several conservative legislators. While they may express a right wing ideology on national policy, you would be surprised to see how "hands on" and non-ideologically they approach the concerns of their own community. They don't get elected 10 years from now "when the problem has solved itself." They get elected this year and the next.
Ideology is a powerful guide to all our decision making, but it is no excuse to sit idly by and ignore the flesh and blood problems that face us here and now.
blog this
if you are a developer in the United States you are most likely already doing more than your share to create jobs for the unemployed. Unfortunately for you, the jobs which are lost are yours and they are recreated in India and other places where productivity costs less.
Job market
I don't agree with berating those frustrated in their search, but I do agree there are a LOT more jobs out there now, been steadily coming in over the past 6 months, I've noticed. Don't underestimate the potential of looking in other areas as well as your own. Try craigslist.com (various cities), dice.com, etc.
Can computers help reverse falling employment?
"Its the same old same old complaint. Look at all those poor ignorant slobs who have lost their jobs because of X. Boo Hoo ... we must take care of them. You may do so if you wish. I won't lift a finger coming to their aid unless I can profit from it."
Terrific. I propose we initiate this experiment beginning with yourself. Let's have you lose your job and/or business and have no one come to your aid unless they can profit from it. Since you have so much the power of your convictions, let's see it in action. Put your money where your mouth is, minion.
Can computers help reverse falling employment?
Hear hear!!!
Did Bill Gates start with a slick sales force?
"Did Bill Gates start with a slick sales force?"
Yes, Bill Gates is a slick sales force. Or do you not remember the whole DOS thing?
Hear! Hear!
Maybe it's hypocritical on my part but I can't work up any amount of pity for those slobs (the telemarketers). Someone with their eminent qualifications can always find a job in the housekeeping or food services industries -- and probably one that allows them a pee break now and again at that.
Free Software
This, of course, assumes someone else is working to pay your rent. This is the fundamental flaw of socialism|stateism|Marxism. Someone has to do the work of providing for our basic needs. And since many people lack the drive to survive, their continued existance can only be explained by a little luck and the fact that they benefit from the work of others without providing anything in return.
As long we live in a universe of scarce resources, socialism will be inhrently unfair. this is, of course, the charge that socialists level against capitalists.
And yet I can't see what is unfair about "you work, you live; you don't, you die." The only way to change that law of nature is to create wealth and and technology as a hedge against scarcity. Then maybe we can have that society of leasure that Star Trek(R) likes to dream about. Capitalism, however, is the only reliable way that the human race has ever found to do it. And we're well on our way to doing it. The problem is that many of those who are freed from the tyrany of reality, come to believe that they are entitled to this freedom that was created for them, and to which they didn't contribute. That risks torpedoing the whole project and runing it for everyone.
There will always be rich and poor, but only in a capitalist society do you have a choice of which to be.
Jeff Davis
Richmond, VA
Free Software
If it's a pipe dream, it's only because people with attitudes like what you expressed persist and insist upon infecting discourse and other minds (usually younger ones nature foolishly bestows to their dubious care) with that type of poison. Yeah, right, cracking a whip and making life hard is the only way to go. Surrrrre. So says the pig at the top -- "some are more equal than others". Right. So says every silver-spoon hoarder. It sounds to me no different from saying no one would be motivated to do anything at all unless they were treated like crap and forced through economic and social circumstances to knuckle under to "da man" (whomever has the buckets of money to dole out trickles of as a reward for not doing work itself but SERVING TIME -- 8 or 9 hours per day -- regardless of whether productive or not).
One of the dreams of the internet was to change all that -- to change how work is done, how work is defined -- and for me the dream lives still, and will come to fruition. Like it or not, you old boy whip crackers will be divested of your piles of money. You're all still sore because slick talking gen-X'ers hoodwinked you out of it in the late 90s, that's really all this is about, I strongly suspect.
Maybe ...
that would be cool, but India won't hire Americans.
32-hour workweek
The Depression was caused by the Fed closing banks instead of extending credit.
What a dumbass.
If an industry changes, and you happen to be among the group that is effected, perhaps you should reevaluate your skillset.
Instead of trying to be a 'C++/Java Programmer', perhaps you should think outside of the box, educate yourself, and become a system integrator instead (become conversant in networking, computers, and glue languages etc...just one example).
Communism
How about software that promotes communism? In a communist society, they put everybody to work!
What a dumbass.
>>
A 2% annual increase in productivity will double the standard of living every 20 years
<<
National output may double, but the benefits are aggregated overwhelmingly at the top of the food chain. Many segments of the workforce may actually see a reduction in their standard of living.
Also there are a number of CEO's whose compensation is greater than or equal to the profit generated by the entire company. Can you spell "fiefdom"?
What about the rest of the word?
What about the world outside the US? In trying to construct a future utopia consder the millions of people living in poverty. Having thought globally fo a minute, think about the people living in the less solubrious areas in your own town, city or state. The places you normally drive past, or ordinarily never have to encounter.Do they really have any "choice" in the matter.
In a recent global survey of education in different countries, the US came 13th. Hungary, an aspiring but poor Eastern European country came 12th. Isn't it obvious where our investment should be going?
Wealth is not the same as Prosperity
Beautifully put.
Of course they can
While the article contains good suggestions, no one has to be ashamed of anything that increases productivity. The "creative destruction" of business models and the jobs that depend on them that Joseph Schumpeter described in 1942 has been critical to bringing all of us to our current level of prosperity.
By all means, choose your own actions according to your own definition of social responsibility. Just refrain from insisting that others act only according to your definition. To do otherwise will pinch your retirement income, burden your children, and impoverish your grandchildren.
It is not the responsibility of industries or governments to emply people. In the future, its quite possible that only a tiny number of people will need to work.
This is a good idea, but only if
1) everyone without jobs is still provided for.
2) everyone still has opportunity to learn and grow
This won't happen for a long time... it will take a complete paradigm shift (to use a very abused catch phrase) in our society.
We already have the ability to produce enough food for the entire world. It's just that most of the world can't afford to pay us for it.
Oram is looking at the bigger picture
"How do we know that getting the state completely out of the rgulatory business would result in the kinds of abuses purported to have taken place during the 19th and early 20th centuries?"
Look at California. I'm not saying that they are a model for intelligent deregulation, but they are a model for corporate exploitation of an unregulated system.
Furthermore, do you think there would be labor standards laws (for instance child labor laws and safety e.g. fire exits) if they weren't ever necessary? Congress doesn't generally pass laws that regulate business unless their constituency is beating their doors down. They'd much rather spend tax dollars and increase their own power and stature.
And statism? Do you mean fascism? Yeah, unregulated government sucks, thats way we have checks and balances. No such checks and balance system is built into business institutions (don't even mention an invisible hand, I mean the structure of corporations, not the market itself), hence regulation of some sort is necessary to prevent exploitation of workers and consumers.
And this hardly prevents it. Only the unmitigated greed of the leaders of large corporations allows them to value themselves at over $100 million dollars per year, or per severence package, while laying off the workers who brought the company this wealth so as to move their jobs overseas (where those pesky labor standards laws are either weak or non-existent ... thanks NAFTA!!!).
NO ONE works enough to be worth this much more than their fellow man (or woman). NO ONE is so exclusively skilled. They are only exclusively associated. The only word that can describe this is exploitation, and of a most nefarious kind.
Nicholas
Real people, real problems - Here and Now
I agree that immediate needs should be addressed, but a short-term view of the world is part of the problem. The really tough problems can't be solved in just a few years. They require a deep and subtle understanding of societies and the world.
The people who champion 'Market Forces' to 'ultimately solve everything' are essentially advocating NOTHING in the way of long-term visions or solutions to our problems.
exports?
Geez. Okay, replace "people" with LABOURERS then, as ought to have been completely obvious was meant.
What on earth could possibly make you think that any other definition than that could conceivably be relevant to a discussion about JOBS???
Re: Purported abuses
PURPORTED abuses? Do you think that child labor was a myth? Do you think the Triangle Shirt Waist fire never happened?
(see http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/trianglefire/)
With all due respect, if you think all that stuff is some kind of fiction invented by statists, then you are seriously out of touch with reality.
Luddite bullshit
Chicken Little it may be but the impact is already being felt in Europe where the average age is increasing and the workforce is decreasing. This is also taking place in the US. In the next 10 years 78 million are projected to leave the workforce. Downsizing will remove another 2-5 million in the next few years.
From a statist perspective this is baaadddd. We have a massive structure of domestic governmental spending (just like Europe). A decreasing tax base is a bad thing. From a government perpective you need as many jobs as possible paying as much as possible to generated the taxes needed (sales, income, property, etc) to pay for the social services you provide.
From that perspective fewer workers to make a widget is bad. More jobs moving offshore is bad. Higher productivity is bad.
Free Software
Jeff, you don't understand, socialism |stateism |Marxism don't expect that somebody else pays somebody other's rent more than any society has the separation of tasks. The major problem with capitalism is that a minority gets unproportionally more than they actually need, and that the system supports it, even when this means faster destruction of the whole Earth.
The sad truth is...
No but the fact that you don't need a license and a person with less education is allowed to do you job is a significant part of the equation.
If all software in the US was required to be produced and signed off like the work of an architect or licensed engineer we would solve alot of the problem. But that won't happen.
We messed up. We didn't control the supply side of labor at all...high schools are providing programming skills without the system building knowledge.
Communism
The problem with communism is that everybody works but almost all don't get paid their fair share.
The problem with capitalism is that not everyone can work and still to many don't get paid their fair share.
Up until recently capitalism has overall been much better than communism for society as a whole. Due to ever increasing automation though it's moving towards being even worse than communism by permanently removing jobs. Eventually, unchecked, there will be a majority of unemployed people with no income at all and a few ultra-rich people. The wealthy simply won't need employees anymore because machines will be cheaper. With no motive to redistribute wealth downward capitalism will become stagnant and be just as screwed as communism.
Which is why we need to combine the two systems. Let capitalism keep working but make sure we're constantly keeping people working and the money flowing downward. Capitalism only works if the cycle stays strong.
And the solution is...
create busywork to involve more people? How degrading. The thing is, increasing productivity is supposed to free people for more creative pursuits, to rise above the humdrum. But they can't do that if there is no mechanism to pay the rent. So maybe we need communism, or we need corporate sponsorship of more freelance creative work, or at the very least we need some mechanism to reduce the amount of work each person needs to do to earn the same lifestyle. But businesses do not like to pay the same money for less work. Maybe if they were co-ops, in which the employees are also the majority owners collectively, such things could happen - they could pay dividends in the form of time off rather than money, whenever the profits increase sufficiently to permit it. But then we workaholics would probably prefer money rather than time, wouldn't we.
Anyway some things are not scaling very well as technology advances; rent keeps going up (because land is a finite resource), and healthcare costs keep going up (because people expect more; and because they sue more and more aggressively when mistakes are made, instead of accepting the fact that one's lifetime is also a finite resource, and most of us will die from stupid, primitive causes; and because of wrong-headed regulation, probably.)
So I don't know what to do exactly, but it sure looks like a looming crisis.
RE: What about the rest of the word?
You know what? I bet we invest may times more per capita for education than Hungary does, too. The problem is not money, it's something else. Maybe discipline, maybe the need for competition between schools rather than having government-run schools as the only choice for so many people, maybe that teachers need a better environment - more freedom, less administrative overhead. The little one-room schoolhouses of yesteryear produced much better-educated people than the high-tech classrooms of today.
32-hour workweek
So the government should say that if you work more than 32 hours, it's overtime? It's easy to imagine the corporate bitching and moaning that will ensue. And we couldn't pull it off without a lot of lobbying by some sort of working-class group, which doesn't currently exist in a sufficiently organized fashion.
Unfortunately the white-collar folks are not subject to such limitations anyway. They'll go on working 80 hour weeks to compete better with the next guy and get some little bonuses or something.
Otherwise maybe it's a good idea, but I never like regulatory solutions very well; they have a tendency to appear very short-sighted a few years down the road.
Eliminate the GPL
The only problem with the GPL is that most users are scum that doesn't appreciate what they're getting for free so they make no effort to share anything of their own in return. Because few users contribute back to the system the programmers are shouldering a lot larger burden than they need to What we need is users who like the software so they make a donation or hire programmers from the project to maintain the features they find most important.
Free Software is a good idea. It provides viable options in the market and makes computers cheap enough that anybody can use them which is important as a society. Everybody who can use a computer to learn or create is building wealth for our society.
I've considered using some sort of a Community License instead of the GPL. Such that you can use my work for free if you provide something to the community also. You can be another programmer, donate money, donate food, donate housing, donate time to the public library, whatever.. but you couldn't use the software for free if you weren't an acting member of the community. Of course there'd be no effort to keep people from also earning money. Let them work jobs, own companies, etc as long as they are donating to the common wealth also. Consider it something closer to a tithe similar to what some religons do except in this case you'd be free to take from the pool also.. as long as you were giving.
Valuing jobs?
If jobs are valued, why not ditch all the computers? Think of all the people we can hire to perform all the newly created grunt labor.
No, I'm not being a jerk. The ultimate society is not one with full employment, but one where the only labor is enjoyable, creative play. And yet, everyone has plenty to eat. How can we work to that goal?
Free Software
Once again this is a wonderful idea but I can't see a mechanism to make it happen in our culture. Corporations are fundamentally greedy - give it to them for free, and they'll take it. They may pay you for support, but that is relatively degrading work, compared to actually writing the next version. There have been a few exceptions, of course; the most common one is where a company hires the superstar free-software coder because his work directly adds value to that company. But it's not happening nearly often enough to be a trend, and even then they are mostly hiring the original architects, not the other contributors who also had something significant to do with creating that software.
It's interesting to think, in the Star Trek utopia, what percentage of people would be driven to creative pursuits of their own accord, and what percentage would just be couch potatoes. Or how the average values which most families try to impart to their children would change, or whether such change can influence the type of person who is a couch potato in today's society. Smart people enjoy exercising their creativity; the lower-IQ folks just want to watch TV all day or something, given a choice. Or maybe, if there were enough smart people, the dumb ones just wouldn't matter, because there would be enough wealth to go around.
Well, free software is doing that in a way
The free hammers come when nanotech becomes general purpose enough to allow anyone to use it. At that time consumer goods will all go the way of software and media. You might have Sears suing P2P networks for allowing people to download the program to assemble hammers for free.
When that starts to happen you'll see total hell ripping loose. Companies will go out of business, millions will become unemployed, but the majority will have more wealth than ever before. No doubt as the technology comes closer to reality companies will be working their ass off to outlaw it. It's the capitalist nightmare.
Not that I think it'll actually be bad for capitalist. In fact it'll solve most the problems capitalism is facing due to technology. It'll still be largely feared though because it'll shake the system up. Companies will be left figuring out what people that have everything will still be willing to buy.
What a dumbass.
But doubling your standard of living does not double your happiness. Given that we all die, what the hell is this rat-race all about anyway? Dying with the most toys does not make you a winner. Having spare time, to smell the roses or bask in the sun or paint or compose music or write free software or to be in the arms of your lover - now that's a quality lifestyle. And society is not currently channeling increased productivity in a way which makes that possible, at all, period. Not unless you get absurdly rich and can retire a lot earlier than the average.
More Jobs?
Well that's the purpose that war serves. Let's go smash up Iraq and rebuild it again, yeah, that'll make a lot of jobs for the defense industry, Halliburton, the oil industry and so on.
More Jobs?
Yeah but society has inadequate mechanisms to support the FREED burger-flippers. They need some way to get some ownership in the automated McDonalds, without having to buy an entire franchise.
I wonder why there aren't more co-ops.
Can computers help reverse falling employment?
I'm right with you Comrad Lenin... Lets tax those lazy producers to poverty. Then the poor and indigent will be the rich, and they will run the new economy, as only they know how! Revenge of the POOR!
Posters living in another universe
>And I'm no commie. I have an Ivy League education
Oxymoron?
What a dumbass.
"Change, the only thing that stays the same"
--Levar Burton.
You guys need respect for one another AND a union
The essay certainly stirs strong feelings! I would like to comment on something I see as a shortcoming in the community.
Groups of professionals accept a level of competence among themselves and don't carp about incompetence. This behavior promotes civilized discourse and gets results.
I am not sure what to do about people who think that they are not in any way responsible for taking care of the less fortunate members of society.
I AM sure that they should be quiet and just think about the results of their statements. I also don't understand why a simple statement about being out of work for a year constitutes whining. I have seen this happen time after time on Slashdot. In fact, I don't understand why people SHOULD put up with unfair treatment and conditions.
The AAAS recognized the difficulty of making the move from graduate student to working scientist quite a few years ago. They created an online community for young scientists for support and job services.
Frankly, IT Professionals need to unionize.
More Jobs?
I think you might be missing the point. The ideal longer-term situation is one in which sufficiently advanced technology allows us to recreate at least the same or better standard of living for everyone, but automated to the point where only very few people are needed to maintain the technological infrastructure to do this. So basically most people will be out of a job, but they wouldn't mind because the sufficiently advanced resulting welfare system buys everyone a nice house, television, car, food etc.
Technologically it will be theoretically possible to achieve this, but whether or not people can adapt to that, and whether or not society can make the transition from the present system to that system, are open questions. But this is the "ideal".
People may "want jobs" today, but only because it is currently basically necessary in order to have a decent standard of living. But supposedly we're all working towards a goal of improving our