A Musician's Take on File Sharing, DRM, and Copyleft Licensing
by Miriam Rainsford06/10/2003
In a recent weblog, Derrick Story wrote "I'm tired of listening to the RIAA. I want to hear from the musicians."
We hear so much in the press about the RIAA's stance against "music piracy" and the attempts of major labels to provide legitimate music download services, while making a determined effort to deter those who wish to share music on peer-to-peer networks. Story is all too familiar with the current stalemate between consumers and the RIAA, but raises the point that "I don't know what the actual artists are thinking. They are the ones who create the content that everyone else is arguing about."
Musicians are often unwilling to speak out against the tight constraints of their record labels, afraid of biting the hand that feeds. But an increasing number of artists are embracing the changes in digital technology as a potential revolution which may free them from the shackles of the commercial record industry. As an independent, computer-based composer whose work deals directly with fair use rights in an interactive world, I will dare to venture an answer.
Yes, we have indeed heard enough from the RIAA, a conglomerate of the five major record labels which claim to speak on behalf of their artists, yet are out of touch with musicians' need and interests. I would suggest that instead, financial interests and a fear of adapting to changes in technology are the primary motivation behind their impassioned speeches against "piracy" and their pursuit of multi-million dollar lawsuits against students running private, non-profit file sharing networks.
Differing Opinions About Music Sharing and Sales
The issue of peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing and music downloads gives rise to strong and differing opinions from record company executives, musicians, and the listening public. A conclusive study of the impact of P2P on the record industry proves difficult to obtain, and each side has manipulated sales figures to their advantage: while the RIAA present a worst-case scenario, others demonstrate that P2P does in fact encourage sales by introducing listeners to new material which is then purchased in CD format.
The economist Stan Liebowitz, hitherto supportive of the notion that P2P has no impact on the record industry, released a controversial paper (.pdf download) last week demonstrating that there is some negative effect, although difficult to establish due to the multitude of other factors.
These include changes in musical taste, the death of the CD single, the introduction of new formats (including authorised MP3 sales), and lower numbers of CD releases due to the current economic recession. Liebowitz's study should also be viewed as somewhat inconclusive as it relies purely on sales figures. It is noteworthy that he has neglected to survey actual public opinion as to why their purchasing habits may have changed.
However, regardless of one's position either for or against P2P, it's clear that file sharing has indeed proved a direct threat to the establishment, as it decentralizes control. Peter Drahos, in his book Information Feudalism supports these assertions: "the threat was not so much to entire industries as to individual players who did not want to lose their position of dominance. These players turned to copyright law in the hope of finding immunity from competition and the uncertainties of technological change."
Digital Rights Management: Overkill for Users
And if the major players get their way, their reassertion of control would take the form of Digital Rights Management (DRM) technology embedded in every computer, CD or DVD player, car radio or mobile device, providing an extreme means of control over any attempt to share music. DRM, whether in software or hardware form, is impossible to employ without some level of infringement of the user's civil liberties. Whether this is simply a matter of denying fair use rights, or delving deeper into setups such as TCPA/Palladium which entertain the possibility of remote data-mining, the risks to privacy are very real. When combined with anti-circumvention legislation, this results in a situation where the terms of copyright law are no longer defined by the government but by the publisher.
As a musician I find the notion of using DRM technology abhorrent--not only because of the risk that my works could be locked up indefinitely by technological means, despite my signing a non-exclusive distribution contract. Under anti-circumvention laws such as the DMCA and the forthcoming EUCD, it could well prove impossible for me to share my own work with my friends, or to distribute DRM-controlled content to another publisher.
But aside from the legal and practical aspects, I believe DRM to be against the spirit of music-making. Music is made for enjoyment, and it is very difficult to create music without an atmosphere of freedom. Musicians just want to be free to create, without being concerned over having their music--or the tools they use to make music--tied down or controlled by devices which may well have detrimental effects on audio quality. Perhaps the reason Apple has been so notoriously silent on the topic of DRM is that the Mac OS dominates the creative market. To implement DRM on a Mac platform would risk alienating their primary customers in the pro audio sector.
I believe there exists a better alternative to DRM and technological methods of control, in the form of copyleft licensing. Copyleft is the permission to redistribute which forms the essence of the Free Software and Open Source movements. By adapting this principle to suit creative works, musicians have a means to license the sharing of their works without unnecessary technical constraint. The EFF's Open Audio License and Larry Lessig's Creative Commons project are examples of the practical application of copyleft principles in the arts, which musicians may easily utilise without the need for specialist legal knowledge.
File Sharing and Copyleft Licensing
As a struggling composer myself, I think that file sharing promotes, rather than takes value from my music. If I permit my audience to copy my works--which, let's face it, they are going to do anyway, whether I like it or not--then DRM technology becomes unnecessary. Copyleft licensing decriminalizes sharing, whereas DRM makes criminals out of our audience; indeed, out of us as the musicians. It would be impossible for me to compose my heavily sample-based work without access to file-sharing networks. The job would be tedious and time-consuming, and indeed sometimes nigh on impossible, as many of the samples that I collect are from rare MP3 files.
There is no criminal activity involved in taking samples for the purpose of parody or artistic criticism, as this qualifies as fair dealing under UK law. Under copyleft licensing, there would be no need for me worry about the methods I use to collect my samples from the Internet, as redistribution is permitted. One could even form a repository of copylefted works, which could be employed by musicians working with samples, web designers seeking sound effects and perhaps even teachers who might wish to use a piece in a drama class. Darren Landrum has begun work towards an Open Music Resource Library which would offer such services.
Kris "Thrash" Weston, formerly of The Orb, has turned to using copyleft licensing in his new venture, bLiP Records, where he distributes his releases online via his site. Weston also operates servers on all the major P2P networks, releasing the entire contents of bLiP's premiere album, "WTF? - The Madonna Remix Project," in MP3 format under an open audio license. This may seem a risky move for a new business, but Weston believes in the power of file sharing as viral communication, promoting his new recordings and providing a form of free advertising--very welcome to a new company with little money to spare.
Weston terms copyleft "a karmic tax", as it establishes a level playing field; those who feel they will lose out through permitting reproduction are the ones at the top of the tree: "it only affects the people making too much in the first place". Having seen the ugliness of the music business from the inside during his days with The Orb, he has chosen copyleft as a means of fighting back against the institutionalisation of music: "... if only purely to stop the onset of the DMCA and the pointless bodies that do little for the struggling artist and much for the old boy's club".
One difficulty which bLiP records encountered in releasing the Madonna Remix Project album was that MCPS (UK Mechanical Copyright Protection Society) licensing is at present incompatible with copyleft licensing. Weston wished to draft his own license which would permit his customers to enjoy sharing MP3s of the album. When he approached the MCPS, their response was that a copyleft license would be "inappropriate."
On further inquiry it seems that, as an artist signs an exclusive license to the MCPS for royalty collection, the MCPS are then unwilling to extend this license to include file sharing. This is somewhat understandable when one considers that the MCPS takes an 8.5% cut from every album or digital distribution in the United Kingdom. The MCPS are willing for their members to use copyleft licensing as long as they sign a waiver for royalty collection. But what made Weston's job difficult is that, under UK law, it is illegal to press an album without an MCPS license. And an album license will not be granted by the MCPS if the album uses copyleft material.
So, yet again, we find that musicians who wish to work independently of the system are being locked out by a monopoly operated by the MCPS, who receive the major part of their commission through royalty collection for the Big Five record labels. This makes it hard to believe that the MCPS would be unbiased in their service toward musicians, even though it would take little effort for the MCPS to implement alternative forms of licensing. Julian Midgely, Chairman of the UK Campaign for Digital Rights, commented on the situation: "From the experience of bLiP Records, it appears that the British system for music publishing is heavily geared toward dissuading musicians from releasing their music under open licenses. We can see no adequate justification for this, and will be investigating further."
Kevin Marks' mediAgora presents a potential solution to this problem. mediAgora is a business model for internet-based distribution, designed to work within a P2P framework. mediAgora supports Creative Commons and other copyleft licenses, and permits and actively encourages redistribution by rewarding those who share files as virtual "promoters." Those who share files on their P2P systems are required to pay a fee to purchase the files, but are then rewarded when another listener buys and shares the music from their server.
A predetermined percentage from all these fees is returned to the artist, who takes the place of the record company middleman and receives around 70% of royalties. Although it may seem a complex system, it is designed to fit easily into present file sharing networks. Marks is convinced that DRM is unnecessary, and destroys the value of the work. He believes that the best way to encourage fair payment for an artist is to make legitimate systems easier to use than the unauthorized networks: "If you lock up your work with some scheme that requires a password to be entered and a network connection to authorize, or one that sets a time limit after which it will destroy itself, or even just one that prevents editing and copying, your customers will value it less, and be less likely to pay for it."
The success of Apple's recent venture with EMI indeed demonstrates the willingness of customers to purchase downloadable files when the system is easy to use and integrates neatly into their existing software to provide a high quality service that can also be shared across a network. While still hampered by some DRM constraints, the openness of EMI in permitting a certain level of copying and streaming is noteworthy in demonstrating a more creative outlook.
Final Thoughts
As musicians, we have a natural tendency to turn any situation to creative advantage, but our attempts are being frustrated by those at the top, who don't wish to lose their increasingly unstable monopoly over the production of music. William Gibson, in a speech at the Director's Guild to America, compared the evolving situation in digital distribution to the medieval feudal system, with the record companies as our patrons, feeding off our hard labor. We as musicians are tired of being subject to the whims of middlemen, who take a greater cut from our earnings than is reasonable. Like the medieval peasants, we are seeking change and revolution; but when musicians revolt, they do so with creative flair. We are exploring solutions such as mediAgora and copyleft licensing as a means by which we can return the balance of power to where it rightly belongs, with those who create the music.
Miriam Rainsford is a composer, singer and songwriter in classical, electroacoustic and underground dance music.
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Showing messages 1 through 70 of 70.
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Winning the battle
2005-08-24 03:09:03 nooneinparticular [Reply | View]
I used to work in the finance department of one of the big music companies. They are awfully counterproductive re the creation of new and good music. They concentrate on trying to extract as much as possible from old rubbish to satisfy the endless greed of the usually unpleasant people on the board. If file sharers made a point of all only putting up five tracks for sharing with four being popular and one obscure then everything would be available as now but no one would get prosecuted as there would be no point for the record companies and even if they did you will never get fined much for sharing five tracks.
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Fair Use Artist's music "Delete Middle Man"
2004-12-24 21:56:45 TigerPawz [Reply | View]
For artists that wish to break free of the Controllers that supply their music to the masses.. I belive creating new music "songs" and using Copyleft Licensing to promote these songs will infact help the artists break free and become their own middleman in the long run.
Artists for our Listening pleasure, Please take up
Copyleft Licensing and thinks of P2P as a new method to promote your music to the masses! Only then will you gain more by cutting costs for which the Big 5 have been making off you all.
Thats my 2 cents of an opinion.. Hope it gets heard.
TigerPawz
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Check out Gnomoradio
2004-04-05 20:24:02 garrison [Reply | View]
I've been working on a distribution mechanism some time for artists who would like to embrace copyleft. Please check it out.
http://gnomoradio.org/
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Times Are A-Changin'
2004-03-18 14:04:11 ssauble [Reply | View]
I think a closer examination of the evolution of the music industry is well-needed.
Profit should occur mostly from performance, as it has for centuries.
There are reasons why small artists struggle to rise into the spotlight. Music is power. It has fallen among the hands of CEOs. I believe this is crucial in understanding the actions of the big-5.
One thing, I believe, is sure. We must not lend them a docile ear. We must uphold and respect the aspects of humanity and the core values we intuitively retain that shape and form our virtue. Commercialism is a spit in the eye to art, to God (in whatever form), to human perseverance.
Music and Art must be upheld in the education of our youth. We must teach our children how to be human, how to pursue wisdom. We must teach our children to question institution, as in Emerson's words, they are only the lengthed shadow of another man.
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CD SALES
2003-09-29 10:24:33 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
THE REAL BOSS HERE IS THE CONSUMER- IF WE AS A WHOLE WOULD STOP BUYING CD'S TILL THE END OF THE YEAR JUST PERHAPS THE RIAA WOULD REALIZE WHO REALLY IS IN CHARGE AFTER ALL------THE ONES WHO
DO THE BUYING
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Mp3 sharing
2003-09-29 10:24:17 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
the RIAA is an f*$@ing joke. When Napster got sued, they claimed it was the artist not getting paid. Who are they kidding? The artist gets shafted too. The only people making out on CD sales are the RIAA. Screw 'em. The stuff that gets put out on CD isn't worth buying anyway. And everything that's been said here already is true. There WILL always be a way to obtain it for free (newsgroups are fairly easy to post to anonymously too...) and after all, though 2 wrongs don't make a right, CDs aren't worth 13-18 bucks a whack anyway...so they are thieves just like the rest of us.
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CD SALES
2003-09-29 10:24:04 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
THE REAL BOSS HERE IS THE CONSUMER- IF WE AS A WHOLE WOULD STOP BUYING CD'S TILL THE END OF THE YEAR JUST PERHAPS THE RIAA WOULD REALIZE WHO REALLY IS IN CHARGE AFTER ALL------THE ONES WHO
DO THE BUYING
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Term Paper on Subject
2003-09-28 10:03:36 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I'm a current college student and doing a term paper on popular media. To take a freash stand, I've chosen to write about Piracy and take the positive stand on it. This artical has helped a great deal.
One comment though. About not being able to hear from the musicians themselves, didn't Madonna speak out against file sharing a month ago? I remember there was an interview about her and her recent attempt to put a stop to P2P file sharing. In this case, the musician did speak out. How would some of you look at that? And how would you argue against that?
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Another example of Tyranny
2003-09-09 15:17:18 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
This is another example of the the US government's attempt at enslavement.
They want to limit and snoop on our internet activities, stop us from enjoying our favorite old songs that cannot be found in any store!
The US government is out to destroy the terrorist countries of the world, because they want to eliminate the competition! Mark my words, the america people are going to be the next targets!
You already see what happens when a country disagrees with the US. They attack! How many american towns are Bush and the rest of the government going to destroy when they revolt against him?
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I'm never buying another cd
2003-08-10 20:55:15 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
The RIAA is only against P2P for the money.
If I give a copy of a CD i have to a friend, is that stealing? Piracy? Copyright infrigment? NO! That's perfectly legal. Just as long as i don't sell it.
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So Many Problems
2003-08-01 22:16:53 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I agree that many of the cd's have only 1 or 2 good songs. But the reason I'm not buying them and instead download is the following.
Listen to the wonderful world of Radio what do we get?
Drop of Jupiter 10 times a day.
"You gots the poison,I gots the remedy" 25X/day
Some annoying Jamaican song 15X/day
Justin Timberlake 30X/day
After these songs and a thousand commercials for some new Caffeine-Laden diet formula that the DJ's lie about using, where's the new music and the unknown artists? Forget it,they don't get played.Why buy a new artists junk,when it's all played over and over and over and over again on the radio? I have to change radio stations all day long just to hear something new,and this is what I've learned. I start on Wplj,when the stop talking in the morning,the play an oldie,then play non-stop repetive junk like Timberlake all day.
Get sick of that switch to 104.3,until Scott Munie begins his irritating repetition of the Beatles for a bunch of songs at 12 Noon.
Switch to WSOU,provided the signal will come in now.I hope. If it doesn't,I switch to anything different,I've listened to:
Christian Music
India Music
Jewish Music
Rap
Country
Classical
Anything to hear a FREAKIN' VARIETY for a change!!
That's why File-sharing keeps working,no-one I've seen has one type of music, because what we want to hear is something new,something different that we don't usually hear.
So to the Record Companies,get better artists,give the new guys a chance,put lyrics in EVERY ALBUM,give us at least 5 good songs on an album. Stop shoving the same groups down our throats.
Radio Stations,shut up about the diet products we know you're not using, start playing new artists,more local would be nice. Get rid of that lousy rotation you play.
Because my next step,since I already bought a radio for my car that plays mp3's. (125 songs in good quality on one cd), is to buy a radio/cd mp3 player for my job and my house and sell all my purchased cd's.
I remember when cd's first came out and the music industry promised the cost would come down from the then $16 a cd only because it was new technology,and it's now near 20 years later,and I never saw them even try to lower the price until mp3's came out,and even now,they're too much.
P.S. My friend has been singing for about 15 years now,and we put his music up on the file-sharing programs because no large radio stations will play a cd by a nobody (translation,someone who isn't paying them off to get on the air)Thank God for the college stations,they're the best!
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they just want money
2003-08-01 14:17:10 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
they dont make music just to be artisitic if they did they wouldnt care cause more people get to hear it thru mp3s. i hate those facist music pigs!
like they deserve that much money as they have now? doctors save lives and dont get paid nearly as much as these bands complaing cause they lost a few bucks anyway most money from sales go to the company not the band they make most of their money off concerts. so i think those facist music nazis should just lay off!
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Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-08-01 13:19:54 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
This whole RIAA record sales decline is a bunch of bull. There are a couple of things I can state that just doesn't add up that the RIAA claims is decreasing record sales.
1st of all, the exact same record labels in NY and elsewhere that are complaining about file sharing, and the artists losing money are the same ones that aren't giving a crap about bootleggers, and never have. I could walk a "couple of blocks" away from any major record label in Manhattan and go find any CD of any artist at a table on the street corner. But yet they're saying their serious about piracy? Doesn't seem that way to me.
2nd, technology wise, this theory about MP3s doesn't wash for me. For 1 thing, in just the US alone, not everyone owns a PC, maybe about 35% or little more at best. 2nd, at least about 75% of US citizens are still using 56k connections, not DSL or Cable. So what does this mean? Well here's the deal. I don't know anyone that goes online downloading whole albums, especially not with a 56k connection. No one has that much time in the day with a 56k connection, and that's assuming that you can even get a full connection rate of 56k, 9 out of 10 you won't.
If by chance you did find an entire album of an artist, no one in their right mind would download that file, not just because of the speed problems, but also because you know that each song wouldn't be encoded with the better bit rate quality, because that would increase file size, which is the whole purpose of having MP3's in the first place.
People aren't downloading albums, their downloading singles. And sure, artists don't get paid for downloads, which I feel evey artist is entitled to their money for their labor, but myself, as well as many others that have expressed their opnioins on this forum are tired of spending hard earned money for an album, just to take it home and hear "maybe" 2 "average" tracks. And it really pisses me off because I'm a producer. I've had many people in the industry that have told me my tracks are "major level", but because I don't have a name for myself, like "Baybface", "Timbaland", "BT", "Neptunes", I'm not even considered for some projects. THen I listen to their tracks and it's like "They got paid $50k - $200k for that song?" Yeah, right.
Again, my example just takes into acct. the way things are here in the US, but everybody in the world doesn't have a PC, yet even with all of the bootlegs, explain to me how a rapper named "50 Cent" sold over 800,000 units in a week if people aren't buying albums? THe RIAA is half right, people aren't buying albums, just not crappy ones.
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The 5 Spot
2003-08-01 13:01:19 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I never, ever purchase Audio CDs. Why? They are way overpriced. I simply will not pay $15 for some newly released album that might have 2 songs I care for.
On the other hand, if prices were lowered to $5 across the board for all CDs past and present, I would build a monumental collection. That price point would generate more sales than the RIAA could imagine - enough to offset the current markups I would suggest. After all, $1 profit on 10 million albums is the same as $5 profit on 2 million albums.
Stop raping the customer and lower the prices or get squashed by the medieval peasants.
-lefty
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The 5 Spot
2003-08-09 08:21:11 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I'm sure any good study would confirm what my friend (a record store manager) says: while new CD sales have dropped, the sales of used CDs have remained constant. Why would this be the case? Perhaps they are reasonably priced?
The record companies' response to file sharing was to raise CD prices yet again (to make up for losses), but this just drove more people from the stores. And then the RIAA screams even louder about "piracy". Wrong again. It's what happens when corporations become reliant on legislation-for-sale rather than good business practices to get ahead. -
The 5 Spot
2003-08-03 17:30:15 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
on one hand, i dropped 17 bucks on missy's cd,and their were only 2 songs that i even listen to. now, i dont see any artist starvin, and if they are, they might want to scale back a bit like the rest of us....pawn some of those diamonds and learn how to economize......on the other hand, i down loaded a couple of songs from Rkellys new cd, fell in love and had to have the wh ole thing and it was well worth my 17 bucks.
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listen to the public!
2003-08-01 12:02:02 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I can't stand corporate bullying. After decades of having various music formats shoved down out throats lp vinyl, 8 tracks, cassettes, cd's the public has spoken with we're choosing this time.
Mp3's are the public's next choice of format. This sort of happened by chance. The Record industry charges far too much and forces garbage music down out throat and expects us to keep on rplaceing our music collection.. Sorry guys it ain't happenin'. Why are compact discs $15-17.00 when dvd movies are at times half that? File swapping can be monitored and a royalties can be distributed to the artists like ascap and bmi does with restaurants and businesses that play music in their establishements. Where is the sense here? the public embraced the mp3 file albeit imperfect, and the record companies should as well. I have ripped my entire cd collection to multiple hard drives through my home (over 1000cd's) With Windows media player9 and a creative labs audigy2 platinum sound card, I have my entire collection available with the cd cover art on each song at my fingertips. The mp3s are encoded using EAC with the L.A.M.E encoder using the alt preset extreme setting.. The sound is flawless.. I cannot find songs this quality in the swapping sites, so I buy the cd and encode it. Also Did anyone ever think that e-bay and amazon and others allowing avenues for us to sell our used cd's would affect new sales? I would rather buy a used cd over the net than to drive all over creation to find what I'm looking for. -
listen to the public!
2003-08-01 15:59:37 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Ok...here are the problems with you comment.
"After decades of having various music formats shoved down out throats lp vinyl, 8 tracks, cassettes, cd's the public has spoken with we're choosing this time.
Mp3's are the public's next choice of format."
The public can "choose" all they want. But having seen what the "public" does these days...I'd rather let the Industry "Bullies" decide on a standard.
"Why are compact discs $15-17.00 when dvd movies are at times half that?"
Because most movies have made thier money at the box office. VHS and DVD sales are just a nice profit. Instead of complaining about $15.00-17.00 for a CD how about lower some of the prices I see at movie theaters!
"File swapping can be monitored and a royalties can be distributed to the artists like ascap and bmi does with restaurants and businesses that play music in their establishements."
This is true...but why would ASCAP and BMI pay royalties on music that wasn't PURCHASED? You can't receive a royalty on something free. I take it you are not in any way involved in the music industry. It takes on an average of $500,000 to get a CD ready for sale. This includes recording, mastering, keeping the artists bills paid and a few other minor things. Now to promote that CD you need to spend even more money...in some cases well over $1,000,000 in advertising, tour support and who knows what else. Now, the record company makes about $7.50 per CD sold (distribution companies and record stores make the rest), that means that 200,000 CD's have to be sold to recoup that amount. But while the company has recouped that amount they now have to spend more money in promotion. See what I mean. I agree...CD prices can be lower but I understand why they aren't!
"I have ripped my entire cd collection to multiple hard drives through my home (over 1000cd's) With Windows media player9 and a creative labs audigy2 platinum sound card, I have my entire collection available with the cd cover art on each song at my fingertips. The mp3s are encoded using EAC with the L.A.M.E encoder using the alt preset extreme setting.. The sound is flawless.. I cannot find songs this quality in the swapping sites, so I buy the cd and encode it."
Sounds like way too much work for me! So what you are saying is you purchase the CD's, rip them to mp3 and then share them on the net? Material that people have worked day and night on, spent tons of money to record and release and YOU are giving it to the world? Let me ask you a question. What if you invented a product that would revolutionize the world and make peoples lives easier and someone took your invention and copied it and gave it to everyone for free after you spent a small fortune to get it to the market? How would feel about the lost sales? Anyone who says music should be free has never CREATED music on thier own and doesn't know what it takes to get music to the people! Studios cost money, instruments cost money, agents cost money and manufacturing costs money!
Think before you act! -
listen to the public!
2004-01-06 12:16:48 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
You are a moron. I drive modest vehicles and live in a very modest home in which my wife and both have to bust our asses to keep. I go to college, paying a fortune just to make a couple grand more a year and you talk like the musicians are hurting that we download music from. When they have a two million dollar home, a bentley, six other cars, and a five kt diamond on their ear I do not see why my poor ass should give a crap. Their are musicians in the same boat as me but guess what? I am not downloading their music. -
listen to the public!
2003-10-03 19:30:04 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Wow, it costs $500,000 to ready a CD for burning. It sounds like the industry has a BIG problem. It's the same problem that Detroit had when Honda and Toyota came and ate their lunch. I mean, where does all that money go? -
listen to the public!
2003-08-28 15:54:14 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
You allude to the fact that you are involved with the music industry. I think your involvement makes it hard for you to see this issue clearly. I am a musician who has had to work crappy jobs for months to pay for instruments and equipment which I use to go to a coffee shop or bar to play for very little money (if not for free) because I love to play music. I see music lovers neither as consumers nor as the enemy.
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from John, an unsigned artist
2003-08-01 11:34:38 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
nor do i plan to get signed by a major label. i'm glad that most people are of the mind set that artists should be paid for the work they do. i was not impressed by the post where someone told a working musician to get off his ass and do more shows a week when he was already doing 4-5 shows a week. there's a guy doing it himself, puting out good music, gigging, and trying to provide his fans with a good sounding product. please support that. most people do, from what i've read.
anyone who thinks music should be free is just wrong. it will never be, not because I SAY so, but because of the constitutional rights of copyright given to creators of art and science. if you want things to keep progressing, we've got to support innovative minds.
labels are desperate, they're going down. they're signing deals that have as much as 50% royalties to the artist!!!! not that that's not the way it should have been since the beginning, but that's where it's going. i think we'll see more of our artist friend out there working the scene themselves with their own exclusive label. however, all those people who said that bands should tour to get money, who do you think fronts the money for tour support? THE LABEL. ticket prices are going up becaues labels don't have money to put towards touring. so pretty soon everyone will be bitching about that, too. so artists will start to loose more money there. then the only thing people will do is steal music. there's got to be money going to the artists somehow.
look at it this way--i'll utilize the benefits of file sharing to illustrate...you live in california and you find a great band in florida, "gator inflator", over file sharing. but you don't pay for the music because you're going to support them by seeing one of their shows. meanwhile, gator inflator is on their own label, doing REALLY well, pulling in about 300,000. each guy of this 4 piece band pulls in about 75,000 a year. now do you think that if the labels are weary of sending bands on tour since it's not a big money maker that four dudes from florida are going to embark on a nationwide tour with the anticipation that they'll turn a profit? it will rarely happen. it's great that they got their exposure to you, but it's really a shame that you, as a fan, stole their music when you could have bought it for $.80-1.00.
my main concern is people who think music should be free. artists work as hard as anyone else with the added stress of risk. if they know that their stuff is good and that they have a big audience and fan base, but the money is not coming in, how long do you think they will stay in the business (ESPECIALLY if it's their own)? don't steal candy, don't steal cars, don't steal music--support the artists you listen to...i know i could use it!
check out mp3.com/ushers. there's free downloads, and if you like those you can order our old cd for $5 and the new one for $8. later all! -
from John, an unsigned artist
2003-08-28 07:12:05 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
You know what, im tired of hearing people complain about the artist and lables losing money because of mp3 sharing. They may be losing money but look at it this way, these "artist" get payed hundreds of thousands even millions of dollars TO SING A FRIGIN SONG. When they have a real job working 17 hours a day in a plant having to support a family, then they can bitch about losing a few thousand dollars due to people not wanting to pay 17 bucks for a cd with 2 good songs on it and the rest be shit. Until then they can just shut their damn mouths. They can come live in my shoes or hell half of Americas shoes and see that its not as easy as singing a song to make a fuckin living. They can come live a real life and understand why normal people dont wanna pay to listen to their favorite songs. Im not an artist, maybe thats why i still understand that you shouldnt have to pay to listen to a song, but i guess since im not a millionare piece of shit snobby artist that my opinion doesnt count.
So does losing a little bit of money sound as bad as losing all your fans instead. Use your head its ok have your frigin copy rights. NO ONE WANTS TO STEAL IT WE JUST WANT TO HEAR IT. So quit bitchin and do some actual work tour more make more of an effort. Get back to reality.
NATE -
from John, an unsigned artist
2003-08-28 07:11:57 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
You know what, im tired of hearing people complain about the artist and lables losing money because of mp3 sharing. They may be losing money but look at it this way, these "artist" get payed hundreds of thousands even millions of dollars TO SING A FRIGIN SONG. When they have a real job working 17 hours a day in a plant having to support a family, then they can bitch about losing a few thousand dollars due to people not wanting to pay 17 bucks for a cd with 2 good songs on it and the rest be shit. Until then they can just shut their damn mouths. They can come live in my shoes or hell half of Americas shoes and see that its not as easy as singing a song to make a fuckin living. They can come live a real life and understand why normal people dont wanna pay to listen to their favorite songs. Im not an artist, maybe thats why i still understand that you shouldnt have to pay to listen to a song, but i guess since im not a millionare piece of shit snobby artist that my opinion doesnt count.
So does losing a little bit of money sound as bad as losing all your fans instead. Use your head its ok have your frigin copy rights. NO ONE WANTS TO STEAL IT WE JUST WANT TO HEAR IT. So quit bitchin and do some actual work tour more make more of an effort. Get back to reality. -
from John, an unsigned artist
2005-07-28 16:27:47 green211 [Reply | View]
all I can say is if you don't really know much about the music industry keep your stupid opinions to yourself.U sound alittle ignorant......... if u think working at a wack ass factor for 17 hours is something, u should try sittin in the studio for 17 hours.It ain't a walk in the park. -
from John, an unsigned artist
2003-08-01 12:49:49 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Right on, John! I, too, am an unsigned artist, and have been for the past 40 years in the music business. If I tour, it has to be booked in advance (by me) and the money has to come from somewhere. By me selling my CDs, tapes, whatever, paid for out of my own pocket (Don't quit your day job). If I post my stuff on-line I get a crap-load of publicity, but no gigs, and no money. Therefore, I won't post it. If anyone else does, that's piracy, plain and simple. And anyone who makes musical noises by sampling may be creating an artistic statement of some kind, but it ain't music, and they ain't musicians. Musicians are people who play instruments and/or sing, not computer techs. Consequently, the dreck that passes for "music" these days is only suitable for brain-dead twits that wouldn't know a major from a flat-9-flat-5. So you goofs go ahead and steal all you want from major labels, they've been ripping off the artist forever, and the AFofM has been a willing co-conspirator. And by stealing our music, you become just one more person ripping off the artist. While you're doing that, I'll play music, real music, live music, for friends and fans, and sell my CDs/tapes/whatever off the front of the stand between sets. But for every one hour of public performance, I've probably put in 5-10 hours of practice. The public is mis-guided because we call it "playing" music. Any musician who's been on the road, or who's spent a half-hour trying to master one God-damned riff by playing it over and over again `til you're ready to barf; those musicians will tell you it's anything but "playing". Then why do we do it? Because we HAVE to. If nobody listened at all, we'd still be playing and singing. And we always will. You non-musician pirates and sample goofs will never understand that, nor acheive the satisfaction we derive from the actual creation of actual music. Hang in there John, we probably won't get to the "helicopter and limo" level of show business, but who wants to be "flavor of the week" anyhow? (signed) Unsigned in Canada
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I can solve this problem....
2003-08-01 10:52:11 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
How about if the record companies give record deals to artists that are actually talented and can write good music? Just about every CD on sale now has MAYBE 1 decent song on it and the rest is filler. The current market is so overrun with fluff and there seems to be no interest in good music! I don't mind paying 16.00 or 17.00 for a CD if the content is worth the price! It just seems that today everyone is more worried about the "Look". Sorry...but I don't "Look" at CD's when they are playing! I LISTEN!!! And if what I'm hearing isn't worth listening to then I don't purchase! Do I mind file sharing? No I don't. Am I a musician? Yes I am...with a CD about to drop in a few weeks. Am I affraid people will just copy it rather than buy it? No. I think people will want to own a copy when they hear it! Go to www.abstraxt.com to hear some! (I know...shameless self promotion...sorry, couldn't help myself)
Chris -
I can solve this problem....
2003-08-01 13:04:01 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I think this says alot. The idea and concept of music has changed over the years and the flexible and vulnerable minds of (what really mostly consists) young consumers has been manipulated strongly (at least since my generation).
I think one think that Chris said about "good" music from "talented" artists really hits the spot. Consumers (especially younger consumers) need to really focus on quality and not packaging. There have been some great songs bypassed because the artist was not "pretty" or didn't have any special "gimmick".
Look, I listen to Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera and other pop artists, but I have learned not to by the albums because they have the value of cheap plastic. No offense to those artist, but the MTV world of selling music by eye candy has got to stop. We have to quit paying for high priced CD's with reprocessed low-valued crap and start supporting those struggling artists that have real talent.
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Mp3 sharing
2003-07-18 16:14:40 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
There should be no charge for mp3 downloading. Songs can be copied from the radio for free. CD's are overpriced and only 1 or 2 hits are on a CD. Millions of people pay money to see their concerts. Isn't that support. Free radio - free p2p sharing is the way it should be. I pay for the media and the machine and the time to make them. -
Mp3 sharing
2003-08-01 12:45:00 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I don't understand what all the hoopla is about. If any of you remember, back when there were 8 tracks and cassette tape, there was taping going on between friends and off the radio.Anyone could even tape a whole album. Now there are computers that allow you to record cd's and dvd's and all of a sudden the "BIG GUYS" aren't getting the big money so they have to go out and hunt down the little people that are not doing anything different than their parents used to do. Shame on them... How is sharing on p2p any different than if I went out and bought a tape and brought it to my friends house for them to tape.. It isn't any different and you all know this is not some new practice this has been going on in every household for years and years. Like many have said if you want to keep selling cd's, then why not bring down the price of cd's.. Your public is speaking and I think you should listen.. that is if you give a damn about the people who are putting the big bucks in your pocket to begin with. If they are going to go after people that share music then what next.. will copying movies and television shows off of the tv be banned? will we all be sopenaed for using our vcr? how about those cd burners? will they go after them too.. and computer users.. watch out.. If you ask me.. this is insane! If anything the music industry and the music makers should be flattered that we enjoy the music so much that we want to share it with the rest of the world... No matter what you try to do there will always be people out there making up new ways to get music to others so why not just quit while your ahead and let us enjoy our music the way it is suppose to be enjoy. -
Mp3 sharing
2003-08-01 12:19:39 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Who cares if "file sharing" is dead. There are many other ways to get music free. Anyone ever try the library? Surprisingly, they have quite a bit of good CDs there. That's where I get most of my music nowadays :) You borrow the CD.. take it home and listen to it. If you don't like it, take it back and owe nothing. If you do, you make a copy and the only cost is for your blank disk you just burned. This way I can get CDs in their entirety.. they sound better since they were never compressed to MP3s and I don't have to worry about the record companies coming after me... after all it's only people that share files on Kazaa that are in trouble :) Besides, I've already downloaded over 1200 MP3s.. I've already gotten most everything I want already, and I'm pretty sure there won't be anything "new" coming out that I want. (Britney,Christina and Eminem all suck and are not music, just a bunch of noise!)
Long live free music.. (Sorry RIAA, there will ALWAYS be a way!)
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HELP
2003-07-08 17:51:49 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I HAVE KAZZAA AND FOR SOME REASON I KEEP SEEING THE P2P SHOW UP ON MY SCREEN. WHAT'S THE RELATION HOW CAN I FIX IT?
WRITE TO surfernat@hotmail.com a.s.a.p.
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"heavily sample-based work"
2003-06-12 11:51:30 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I don't want to imply that Miriam Rainsford's type of music is less legitimate or less talented than others, but I have to wonder if artists who create and perform all their own music instead of "cutting and pasting" from MP3s would have this same perspective on copyrights.
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"heavily sample-based work"
2003-08-01 12:09:47 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
yes. a great many artists who do not use sampling in the creation of their music feel very comfortable with file sharing. the "dead" have always allowed free taping of their music, and have encouraged the sharing of their music. and yet, somehow, their CDs still sell today. the same can be said for many newer bands such as phish and widespread panic. the bottom line is that the recording industry is running on an obsolete operating system, and, rather than upgrading, they are attacking all of those who are creating and using the better systems. its time for the recording industry to change with the times, and develop a more artist friendly, and consumer friendly system of business.
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Why no mention about satellite radio ?
2003-06-12 08:58:08 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Regarding the RIAA's complaint about the decline of CD sales which they directly state is the result from music downloads.... BULL !
Through the years, we were forced to dump our stereo equipment to make way for new technologies (vinyl, 4-track, 8-track, cassette, CD's). Now even the standard CD is doomed for the new DVD-Audio format. It seems, not too long ago, I purchased a 300 disc CD changer with CD text capability only to find out that many new CD releases didn't even support CD text (what a waste of money that was). Now they expect us to purchase new equipment for the DVD-Audio format ? No way, not this time. The cost of a regular CD is much too high for the 1 or 2 good songs that you get.
I don't download music but I did purchase an XM satellite receiver. I can listen to any category of music for a monthly subscription that's less than the cost of a CD. I can even see the song title and artist name (CD text was supposed to be this way). I no longer purchase CD's but when I read about the RIAA's complaint, I know their focus is without merit. There are two satellite radio providers, XM and Sirius. XM states they have 600,000 subscribers. If this is so, it is possible that CD sales would also decline by that amount year after year. Why doesn't the RIAA mention about satellite radio impacting CD sales or disclose the income they receive from XM or Sirius ?
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Its simple to fix if they bring down the damn price on CD!
2003-06-11 11:21:48 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I really wish the "middle men" (more like little men) would figure it out that I'm not willing to dish out $14-20 per CD for maybe a few songs I like. Bring it down to MAYBE $10 and I'll consider. And do it as a standard NOT a walmart sale of the week. I'm really sick of them trying to occassional play friendly with us. Consumers are voting with their wallets. Why can't the RIAA see that? Aside from the fact that the only thing they see is money. -
Its simple to fix if they bring down the damn price on CD!
2003-08-01 12:20:39 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
EXACTLY! I can remember the bull**** being slung when LP's were on their way out and CD's were on their way in. All the propaganda and BS about how CD's would "only cost a little more for just a few years" until "CD's will actually cost less than LP's!" Yeah- they cost the labels less and, in turn, pass that 'savings' on to the public who supports their lying arses.
As a record/tape/CD collector who owns several copies of the same song in various formats, I'd like to know when the PRICE of CD's is going to come down in accordance and relation to the COST of producing them? I see "artists" all the time in the media wearing such expensively outlandish garbage and driving cars that nobody else can afford-- please don't tell me that the LABEL pays for that as well! YOU AND I DO!
I'm not against giving a creative mind it's due- artists are entitled to their cut- but unlike all of the other economically devastated industries, I don't see anyone in the industry cutting jobs.
The fact of the matter is that the RIAA is going to alienate so many con$umer$ (read that YOUR BREAD & BUTTER) through their actions that it will eventually cost artists their livelihoods. They'll contend that it's due to "piracy" or "some evil software", but the blame- if there needs to be any- lies with the RIAA. For not being able to embrace this new technology and for their inability to work with those who could have helped them to better exploit (they know all about exploitation- guaranteed) it for the betterment of all. -
Its simple to fix if they bring down the damn price on CD!
2003-08-01 12:14:50 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
"Consumers are voting with their wallets. Why can't the RIAA see that?"
Great point. i have personally boycotted the RIAA. i will not purchase any RIAA music until they come tot heir senses, and change the way they do business. there are tons of talented bands out there who are just as great to listen to. their stickers may not look as cool on your car window, since nobody has heard of them, but its supposed to be about the music. and when my favorite bands decide to release their music independently, i will once again purchase their music. CONSUMERS UNITE!!!
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Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-06-11 01:38:14 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I downloaded a random mp3 I hadnt heard of on a whim. I loved the track so much that I decided to buy the CD.
I couldnt, as it wasnt for sale in this country.
I took several weeks to arrange to import it from america.
How am I supposed to buy music that isn't for sale? How would I have known of its existance without P2P?
CD Sales are down, but because the industry is turnout less and less quality music and raising prices for rubbish we dont want. NOT because of MP3 and P2P. -
Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-11-03 10:16:00 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
ARTISTS HELP - LET YOUR VOICE BY HEARD!
Hello everyone,
For a college project my group is doing a presentation to a class of 35 about MP3's and how it hurts the artists with the objective of getting people to buy the music. Bassically everyone knows it's wrong, but you feel like a sucker for paying $12.99 for something you can easily get for free. One of main aruguments for MP3's is 'well so what they'er [whatever artist] making one million a year instead of three million.' So what I'm looking for is someone that is very hurt by MP3 use. Like let's say in 1997 they made $15,000 from live concerts and $15,000 from CD sales, but when MP3's came out there CD sales went down 90% and they had to get jobs also and focus less on their music as a result, which further decreased their music revenues. Any artists with a true story of this kind please e-mail me at chessguyjim@aol.com and we will use your personal story in our presentation, we feel that an emotional appeal will be extremely helpful to our cause.
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Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-06-11 08:50:49 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
that's all well and good but the simple fact is for every one person who "downloads" an mp3 they "find" on the internet and then purchases a cd, there about a hundred that don't buy a copy.
the artists lose.
(and its your opinion that cd sales are down soley because of britney - pop. that's part of the reason but the wholesale theft of copyrighted materials with tools like kazaa and limewire have played their part too.)
Don't be so naive and respond with the typical RIAA is evil therefore i can steal bull-lony.
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Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-06-12 01:05:10 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I think you're wrong.
It is a well known fact that the major labels have produced less records, and most of those records are of less quality. A total lack of innovation and effort on their part is the cause of their smaller (but still huge) profits.
Any industry will lose revenue when it reduces output, this is basic economics. Also bare in mind that a downloaded MP3 is not a lost sale and certainly not a cost to the artist or label, they still have as much music as before.
The MPAA and RIAA as well as their European equivilents have fought to keep prices up and are trying to create an artificial scarcity by stamping on p2p, and reasonable use, as well as reducing output.
I have about 1000 mp3 songs, previously I have had several thousand. Of those 90% are those I already own. In fact many of these songs I own in multiple formats and multiple copies.
I also download MP3's of music I cannot get easily any other way. -
Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-06-30 21:07:41 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
As I see it, filesharing programs like Kazaa are helping artist more than they are hurting them. I always ask my friends what are some bands that they think are good, so I download a song or two by that band. If I like it i will most likedly buy their cd. If not I delete the file. Big deal. As the title says: the record industry hurt themselves. -
Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-06-11 16:45:53 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
The "wholesale theft", as you call it, is happening on many ends, my dear anonymous friend. As I'm sure you've heard, the big 5 record companies behind the RIAA steal virtually everything there is to steal from the artists themselves - their name, their songs (when you sign a contract with them, *your* songs become *their* songs), their lifestyle (the contract an artist is railroaded into signing contains enough restrictions and clever tricks to ensure an artist must comply or face career-ending consequences). Don't think that the 'pirates' are the only ones that are stealing, though that's not the right word to use. People have the RIGHT under fair use to listen to a song in whatever format they wish, be it copying their CDs to tapes, MP3 players, whatever you wish. You can't trade it with others, which is where file-sharing arguably (and clearly) becomes wrong. However, there is a revolution at hand, and like in any revolution, the rules are being broken, the boundries made useless.
I have heard more GOOD music as an intern at a small indie label in the last 3 WEEKS than I have on all of the radio stations in my area in the last year or so... If you truly want to help musicians and other artists, step outside of the comfort zone of artists you already know, and look for indie artists in your area. Trust me, you won't hear about them on the front page of the NY Times, or screaming at you about their newest CD on the radio. They'll be in the clubs, in the smaller more intimate settings, where music is made with a voice and some instruments, not a noise-making synthesizer or a computer designed to make your voice sound perfect. They'll be singing and playing their hearts out, trying to sell enough CDs at a reasonable price to continue doing what they love for a living - making music.
To conclude, file-sharing is wrong, but how else is this long-overdue message to the RIAA supposed to get across? The only way they have responded thus far is when their sales have decreased, so vote with your wallets - forget the RIAA labels and go support a musician who actually needs your money. -
Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-07-04 05:53:54 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Quote: To conclude, file-sharing is wrong
Moralising about filesharing is wrong. It is petty and hypocritcal. There are very few people who do not need to examine more serious, harmful moral aspects of their lifestyles.
Fileshare is here. It is free education and education benefits everyone.
The people who make fileshare work do it out of generousity and comradery. Your judgement of them is affected by your own greed and envy.
Think seriously, altruistically about right and wrong and dont cheapen the subject by bring ghost accountancy to bear on fileshare.
If I hear your stuff on Fshare, leave me alone. Im not affecting you, unless I like your stuff, then if I have the spare cash to treat myself, I will want to share my wealth and buy your affections and merchanise.
Regards, Pief -
Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-06-11 16:37:27 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
That's rubbish. It's a flawed assumption to assume that someone who downloads then doesn't purchase would have purchased in the first place. There is no loss of sale if no sale would have been made.
Artists make stuff all from their CD sales anyway (unless they're independent). It's far more valuable to any artist to have a larger fan base than to make a CD sale. Fans come to shows and buy merch. The problem with you argument other than the flawed "lost sale", is that it's a short term perspective on something that has long term effects.
The only people that lose are the Record Company. The artist can do naught but gain. -
This whole topic
2003-06-28 12:15:07 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I am an out of work musician. Yes P2P etc blah blah blah affects my remuneration. But it affects it in both positive and negative ways. There will always be 1 in 1000 P2P etc users that act as a bootlegger. Besides that, the rest of the P2P is usually only positive. Like the saying in our business goes, "The only bad publicity, is NO publicity." Therefore, the ONUS is on the Record Producers. Not the P2P Producers. More to the point from the musicians point of view are many other factors. The no smoking rule in public places has got to be the #1 deterant at the moment. I wouldn't go to a club I can't smoke in. Just my opinion but the truth is, P2P and format changes are NOT enough of a factor. Let's talk about CLUBS that do not have LIVE entertainment. I can listen to whatever I want in the comfort and privacy of my home. When I go out, I want to see some LIVE talent, not listen to some DICK DJ that thinks they've got their crap together all that. My opinion is 90% POSITIVE, 10% NEGATIVE for file sharing in general. But I'm talking music. Movies, sorry, I only need to see a movie ONCE. Therefore, the math is simple. -
This whole topic
2003-06-28 12:45:00 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Me again, and more to the point, if I hear a song I like, and YES, some artists only have 2 or 3 songs max per album, I will want that song in whatever format I need it in order to hear it another 20 or 50 years down the road. So yes, we have to keep up with the times. It's not fair, but that's life. Why no talk about Sony sitting on the recordable mini disk for so long in hopes of MONOPOLIZING the market that even serious computer users couldn't integrate them? There are so many factors here that are not being listed that I'd have to post a reply every day for the next decade. And why nothing about the risk involved with downloading tunes? I know for fact that about half the downloads are spiked or good for crap because of the BANDWIDTH war. Therefore, I take the smart route. My ISP has a QUOTA so I don't have to suffer bandwidth wise because of kazza or winmx or limewire fools. I have the PRIME ISP for my area, but how many songs can I truly fit in 5 Gigs/month if I really wanted to. Not enough to hurt the recording industry. Therefore, lets take the arguement to the ISP's that allow UNLIMITED bandwidth usage. Let's let them kick in a little for screwing up the bandwidth for serious users. If people want to pay per Gigabyte, let them, but lets get the right people paying for the right product instead of ISP's that prefer to provide secondary or crappy service in order to gain the lion's share of the market. So just like "This beat goes on" this list goes on, and where can we just "Switch it to Glide?" -
Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-06-28 11:57:22 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
You are all a bunch of ignorant monkey fucks. I have heared all this talk about a "revolution" in the music industry, but no comments on how this is to come about or how it is to work. How is the artist(s) supposed to pay for his or her recording, distribution, and promotion without a record label? How is he/she supposed to profit from it when their music can be downloaded for free? If someone could please enlighten me on how this is supposed to work, i might change my mind on the subject.
I am a musician and i have spent the last eight months in a studio recording. I have done this at my own expense. I have spent every ounce of free time that i have in my music. Believe it or not, it is EXTREMELY hard work. I play 3-4 shows a week, and have been doing so for the past 3 years. I put everything that i have into this, and would like to one day reap the benefits of my struggle.
This would be utterly impossible if people could recieve the fruits of my hard work for free over the internet. How does a musician win in this situation? He can't.
Maybe i'm different from most people, but when i listen to a song on the radio, i can tell if the band is worth a shit or if its not. Therefore, i don't buy CDs with one or two good songs on it. Your argument about that is just an excuse for wanting to get your shit for free. I don't buy one ounce of that argument.
People, believe it or not, we live in a capitalist society. The concept of capitalism implies that if you want goods, services, or entertainment, you have to pay for them. I agree that CD prices are too high, however, I remember them being much lower before napster hit it big. It is true that many labels own all of the rights to the artists (which i definitely do not agree with), but that is not true in all cases.
I guess my argument is, if you guys get your way and get all of your music for absolutely free ... what then? After you've choked the life out of the music industry, where does new music come from?
Way down the road, when the bands that you love start to get dropped from their record labels, where will your music come from. I promise you will be singing a different song then. -
Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-08-12 05:05:13 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Ignorant monkey fucks..I think not...yes you work hard to become sucessful, as do we all, so you are not alone there... (point.. mute) as for where will your money come from. well, if your any good, people will go to your concerts (paid for by the fans who go to your concerts)money in your pocket. t-shirt sales and misc other items with your bands signature on them...money in your pocket... appearances paid for by advertisers..money in your pocket...oh ya.. the cd's in the stores...you have to buy them before you can swap them... money in your pocket..computer...$1500.00 example..isp.. $30.00 and misc other crap you need to access the p2p programs...$50.00 (guessing) so how are we getting this for free and where are you losing money? not everyone in the world owns a computer and has access to the file swapping so they will be out there buying your cd's... (that's you making money) so how are you losing? everyone is making money in this business.. they just may not be able to afford the 50 million dollar mansion and will have to settle for the 20 million dollar mansion, do I feel bad for them..hell no !!!! there will always be music and music swapping no matter what happens with this suit.. and yes, there will always be cd's being made too.. Just depends on how good you are and if the world wants to hear your music.. so, in closing, everyone in the music business needs to stop whining about the all mighty dollar and listen to the people who buy the product and lower the prices of the cd's and give up on this rediculous suit. If the swappers really wanted to make a statement.. they could always boycott the music industry and then where will they be... no money for them and no money for you... guess where not all that bad now are we... we are putting the money in your pockets so why not think about the people who make you famous... that would be us.. the file swappers who enjoy and buy! your music! Gotta buy it to swap it!!! an ignorant monkey..signing off....GO SWAPPERS! -
Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-07-23 07:15:58 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
well you should work hard all other people work had everyday and if you want money play live and work like the rest of the world you ass! why should you put out a couple of songs and reap in money forever without you working bullshit tour
for your money music should be free to listen to
and if it is good we will see and pay to see you in concert -
My point of view (By IceDude)
2003-07-21 07:03:36 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Bare with me here, I'm trying to be as objective as possible.
Let's take a look at some basic facts we might be able to all agree on.
- People buy less CD's
The first one is the obvious one :) Still, often forgotten when flaming each other over the P2P issue.
The logical question is of course:
Why?
This is where people get guessing and claiming they know better.
"The problem with not getting to an answer often lies with not understanding the problem"
To get closer to the core of the problem (and closer to the answer) I'll introduce another element.
- The amount of people listening to music has not decreased.
Again, a simple fact. As far as 1+1=2, so can you merge the first fact, with the second one.
Resulting into something like this:
- People have other means of listening to music than simply buying CD's
To fully understand this concept, we must ask ourselves two questions:
- What ways of getting music are there?
- Why do people use these means?
Both complex answers that can be answered fairly simply.
I'll divide the answers of the first one in main groups (accordingly to the main problem):
- Static free media
- Static paid-for media
- Dynamic free media
- Dynamic paid-for media
And for the second one:
- Preferences
Static media refers to a medium of which you can't change the content. e.g. radio, TV, commercial CD's, etc. The free part refers mainly to TV, radio, and the likes, because you only pay for the means of getting the content, rather than the content itself. (As for CD's you pay for the content)
Same goes for dynamic media. With a difference that dynamic refers to mediums that can give the content of choice. e.g. P2P networks, Internet services that sell costume CD's, etc.
Now we have enough information to describe the problem.
Out of the four groups mentioned, we pick the two that are in conflict with each other:
- Static paid-for media
- Dynamic free media
These two groups are the biggest of the four mentioned above. To specify even more wouldn't be objective anymore. But we can say where the "voice" of these two groups is situated.
Mainly the RIAA and the music labels for the static paid-for media, and the P2P Networks for the dynamic free media.
Back to our first fact:
- People buy less CD's
And the one why they use the mediums they use:
- Preferences
+ a new one, which we can all agree on:
- More and more people use P2P Networks
This is where people start to make mistakes.
They conclude out of the above three facts:
- More and more People prefer P2P Networks over CD's
Which, in there eyes, means that for everyone who downloads a song over a P2P Network and keeps it on there PC, without buying it, steals some of the rightful money otherwise made by buying a CD. Which makes P2P illegal as it harms the industry and promotes stealing.
The problem with this assumption is that it's flawed. It's based on a flawed equation of elements, consisting of two different groups (because it's possible for someone to belong to these two groups at the same time, it becomes impossible to add them to each other). If we correct the basic equation, it would look more like this. 1+1 and 1+1 = 2 and 2.
Again, back to our first fact:
- People buy less CD's
And the one why they use the mediums they use:
- Preferences
+ the new one about P2P:
- More and more people use P2P Networks
And again the one why they use the mediums they use:
- Preferences
These would result into:
- The preference to buy CD's is dropping
- The preference to use P2P Networks is rising
Again, this is as far as you can compare these two elements without seizing to be objective.
(As they are two different elements AND come from two different groups)
Again, back to the basics:
- People buy less CD's
Both sides have their ideas on solving this.
Some P2P enthusiasts clamed the music industry has to evolve to survive, while the RIAA aims at stopping P2P.
Lets look at these two solutions.
The first one is aimed at adapting. The music industry has a vast grip on all forms of static media. Adapting to P2P by imitating there "advantages" (by offering a form of dynamic content), and surpassing them with things digital media can't offer (such as certain quality's, ease of use and bonus stuff/material... etc.) could give the music industry a stable base to build on. Although they will have to live with the fact that allot of people will have their songs, before they'll even consider buying them.
The second one is the way of the RIAA.
It's based on statistics and charts that show that P2P is one of the fastest growing means of getting songs. As I said before, the general assumption they have is flawed. They do not see "a new public" for which they have to adapt their content to accordingly, but merely the same people now getting things for free. Although the assumption is based on a flawed equation, the solution they aim for is equally efficient. Eliminate the competition and get 100% control over the market again. The problem for the RIAA is that new consumer groups have the tendency of growing really large really fast. They are somewhat aware of this fact and try to stop P2P now, while they believe they still can.
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Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-07-04 00:04:47 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
So, it is now reduced to Use Net language,ie calling us p2p'rs "Monkey F**Ks" does not improve your status, keep it civil. And you lost the track of the point, and that being the RIAA has been lying thru it's mouthpieces, Hillary and Carey to the artist's, the consumer's and the Congress most of all. We are not saying we will not purchase CD's or whatever media format comes out in the future. We are saying "Stop the Lies and Hypocracy". See Sony /Phillips are both members of the RIAA and they gave us the consumers the CD player and recorder, smell a rat here yet?? They both get royalty's on all products and media, so why are they whining?? The obvious anwser is that they truely are "Pigopolist's", as are all RIAA member labels that are supporting the consumer war. What happened to the FTC's suit of price fixing?? That seems to have gone to a back shelf at their offices somewhere, soon after "Mr Bush and the Forty Thieve's" took office. Where are our $12.00+/- that the RIAA settled with the FTC for the long years of screwing the consumer?? Did you get yours?? I did not and has been months since it was settled and I have yet to see even a discount coupon(that I will be more than happy to torch in front of Sam Goody's if and when it ever arrives in my mailbox)
P2P for all it's faults has brought me to 2 groups I will now mention. The Gathering Field(http://www.gatheringfield.com) and Shamall(http://www.shamall.com), if I had not been searching for an out of catalog song. I have since ordered a few of their CD's and they are NOT RIAA affiliated. Until the artists and writers are given their royalty's as gauranteed under the law(which has been perverted to the label's whims), prices of a new CD with acceptable content to me the consumer are reduced by at least 1/2 the current prices, the DMCA and any such hinerances such as TCPA/DRM are tabled permenantly, I will never ever purchase any CD by any artist of a RIAA member label again(I used to purchase 10-15 per month, even when I was downloading on Napster), I will buy RIAA member labels from 2nd hand sources, since I know they will not see a penny from it's sale(this has been in effect since Metalica/RIAA took and killed Napster). Speaking of Metalica, you do know they have had a change of heart and are now embracing the P2P?? See, we are gaining more support every day as the RIAA and the Washington hoard are losing, next election I will be working hard for the next President that will actually get elected, not bought and packaged by industry, be very scared the voter's are PISSED. Ok, I off my Soapbox now.
Btw, haven't I seen your RIAA Troll post's in P2P Groups?? -=ô;ö=-
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Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-07-04 05:23:31 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Quote: Speaking of Metalica, you do know they have had a change of heart and are now embracing the P2P??
This is heartening news to my ears.
I have just been reading that artists can expect to get 10-25% cut of the price of their CDs -once they manage to sell about a million!
I think if they let their work propogate on P2P and publicise on the Internet. They could sell CDs online without the need for Agents, Contracts and Start Up Financing. The notion that fans will stop wanting to buy because they can burn scrappy CDs, I think is a lie to protect the earning potential of the big stars and agencies who dont want their dictated network to be eclipsed by this new technology.
Free Internet streaming would have benifited Artists and Listeners more than P2P if the RIAA hadnt legislated to Tax Streams into obscurity.
A simple solution exists for artists to help themselves in this new era, stop dealing with Agents and companies who will not accomodate and work with the soul of the Internet.
And for the agents, learn about Internet publicity and webhosting and Marketing.
Why on earth should musicians need officious contracts as a license to earn a living from being musicians? Bankers and Lawyers and Doctors etc, I understand need to sign oaths, But how does the world's Music benefit from meddling accountants?
How does stifling the music scene benefit those who want to work in it?
All this stuff harms Music, musicians should know that from the joy they get from their talent.
This accountancy harms every musician except the extremely rich ones because it is just a barrier to getting recognised as a desirable member of society for singing and playing in its own right.
Buskers and Cabaret artists, jammers and Gig bands all suffer for the sake of this corporate conspiracy.
The amounting money people have spare to spend on their musical passion has not been changed by P2P but the passion is increased and horizons widened massively.
'pief:]t -
Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-07-02 19:29:30 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I don't really appreciate cd's with only one or two good songs. Does RIAA really think I want to spend 20 dollars on 5 minutes of music? Even worse is a cd that has all the good songs from the previous four CD's that I already own and is marketed as a "new" work. What gives? I personally bought 5 cd's of an artist (who I won't name) because I liked some of the songs I found on Kazaa. I liked the first 3 of the five cd's but I almost never listen to them. How am I supposed to find out about music if it's not for P2P. I don't read music reviews and I'm certianly not about to buy something just because it is the latest thing. It has to be worth listening to before I'll get it.
Cheers. -
Mp3 Helps, the record industy hurt themselves
2003-07-27 13:58:08 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I feel like I was locked in a shell before I really got online and into P2P. I thought I knew what music I was "in to". damn, was I wrong. I just had no idea of the vast selection of music types and artists that were making good music this whole time...and I was locked into what I heard on the radio or with friends-what an incredibly slow way to find new music. I've never bought more CD's than after I discovered Napster (then morpheus, then Kazaa) because I ran out of music to buy! I had already bought what I liked, and rarely found new music to purchase. Once I got online and searching I would find similar artists-or collaborations (that I had not heard of before), so I could go and check out these other artists and Holy Hell!...what a great way to discover a whole new world of music-and even better, it's right at your fingertips. No more wasting money on a CD you've only heard one song from, now we can listen to the songs before we buy it.
On another note...I would much rather download songs I want and make my own CD's. I would be more than happy to compensate an artist for thier work...but I'm not happy about compensating a record company exec because he has albums burned to CD on a large scale (among all the other piddly excused for getting rich of the work of others).
If I find a new artist (esthero-for example) that I like on a P2P network, I would gladly go to her website and hit a button that says "make a donation here" with a little PayPal icon below it. That way I support the ARTIST (they get the money they deserve), I pay for my own blank CD's, and I get what I want right NOW. N



These files are all video files, I believe all of them are using WMV file extensions. Some are national releases, some are "amateur" releases. And, as I have hinted at, these files are adult content.
What i am in for then, I guess, is to find otu if there is a way to de-ecnrypt these files that I obtained through a P2P (after all, what is the point of using a P2P if I have to pay anyway?...lol)
Thank you in advance.