The US must be lucky in regard to Dell support, as here in the UK all contact with Dell (even Sales) has been shipped out to India.

Having been involved with Dell since 1999, I would not say the change has made the support any worse (as if it could be) but when you are conversing with someone in a second language to them, it is always that much harder...made even worse when you can tell they are working through a script/check list...I have spend an hour just with a new memory problem, with the support person not telling me the reason for the weird noises until the end, when if they had just told me at the beginning it meant the memory was setted wrongly (even though I asked to be told what it meant) I would have fixed it in 2 minutes (Dell seem to like places cables in the way, so it can be a real fight to fit memory correctly).

Glad you got sorted, with Dell, hope Apple sort your HD out quick, shame that Apple after care has suffered in the latter years, although I do see an small improvement as time goes by.

Recently lost a hard drive in one of my 17" G4 laptops. Took it to my local non-Apple Apple store here in Colorado Springs. He turned it on, said yep, the hard drive is toast. Not having a drive in stock, he kept it for a couple days (over the weekend) and got it back promptly the beginning of the following week.

While the Apple stores are cool, I don't care to see one here in Colorado Springs. I can go up to Denver to one of the stores there if needed, but the independent support our local guy (Voelker Research) provides is outstanding.

I am currently in the middle of a terrible apple repair situation myself. A few Fridays ago my 2 month old MacBook got narcoleptic and kept falling asleep every few seconds. I took it to my local apple store, after making an appointment, and the genius thought it was something with the screen closed sensor. He said it should take maybe until Tuesday & I could live with that. Tuesday comes.. Wednesday... finally Thursday I call apple care. Like you noted, they have a complete and total disconnect with the store & the repair process. They put me on hold to call the store & get a status of the repair. The apple care website is equally as worthless as it just tells me when I dropped it off & that it still isn't fixed. So the apple care representative was very nice and told me they had to order a part which should be there that day, Thursday, or Friday. No news ever comes and the following Tuesday (now 10 days after dropping it off) I contact the store manager directly & he has a genius contact me. They still need a part and expect it "today or tomorrow." Now it is Friday, a full 15 days after visiting the genius bar and dropping off the MacBook and I still do not have it back, or even a firm date when they can tell me I will get it back. A few years ago my sister had done SOMETHING to her Dell laptop & dell swooped in to pick it up the next day and had her machine back and running within 2-3 days. This apple care repair is ridiculous. I don't think I would even mind the delay as much if there was some regular and accurate communication from the store. All the status updates I have received are because I have reached out & even then, none have been accurate. Back to waiting...

Having to fight the crowds and make appointments at the genius bar for repairs has frustrated me repeatedly in the last few years. I know in the recent past you could deal with Apple Care over the phone and they would often do exactly as Dell did with your laptop hard drive. I had an iBook battery go bad and all I had to do was call Apple Care to get a replacement in the mail. With the increasing coverage of the Apple Store they are encouraging or perhaps even forcing repairs to genius bar?

In the spirit of balance I'll relate my recent repair story when my MacBook hard drive died last month as well. I opted for a genius bar appointment to initiate the repair. They had the new drive in and the laptop ready for pick-up later that day, which was a complete surprise.

Last summer I had the hard drive in my iBook LOST by Flextronics/Apple Repair which they then replaced with a new one (without a system on it!) -- the backups I had created - which I thought were good - turned out to have been corrupted by my iBook somehow (possibly a faulty HD but I'll never find out) and hence useless -- so the most recent backup I have is from February 15 2006...slowly I am trying to rebuild my drive...

word of advice: if you have third party RAM and/or a 3rd party hard drive in a laptop which has gone to Apple Repair, you should indicate *exactly* (on the work order) how you want your 3rd party hardware dealt with when repairing and returning your laptop...

to wit: I had replaced the paltry 40G HD in my G3 iBook with a beefy 100G for working on video and audio files -- both were Hitachi TravelStar hard drives...while in for repair, Apple decided to remove my 100G and install a 40G -- this was to return the unit to its original configuration even though I had told them on the phone to send the laptop back and *not* to replace the hard drive...

its a long involved illogical story - which ended up costing me 4 months of work - but my advice is to be very careful when sending anything into Apple Repair...the 'geniuses' at the Apple Genius Bar aren't always geniuses...and the techs at Flextronics seem to be mostly decision tree monkeys...

the repair company Apple contracts out to - in the USA - (for the heavy lifting sorts of repairs) is a company called Flextronics in Memphis, TN...you have no way to contact Flextronics directly about issues concerning your equipment and as a result are buffered by the Apple Repair people...while Apple has come a long way with their customer service they still have a long long way to go still...

the take-away is: I had to reconstruct all my business correspondence from Feb --> mid-July and although I have been lucky with having some of it backed up on servers there are still large gaps remaining...

I have never had a repair on any piece of equipment turn out so badly and cost me so much time...

My experience is similar with Paul Naro's above. The indepedent stores that deal solely/mostly with Apples tend to be -much- better than the Apple stores. Every single one I've been to has very knowledgeable who care about their jobs... Its an interesting conundrum.

Brown Computers, here in Brattleboro, Vermont is exceptionally good.

Your experience is pretty similar to the one I had when I had the optical drive in my Quad go bad. Now, adding and removing those drives is detailed in their manual -- it's something users are supposed to be able to do. Takes about a minute and zero tools. So I pulled it out and took it to the Apple Store to see about getting a replacement.

Nope. Have to lug in the whole (50lb) Quad.

So I do that. They verify that the drive is busted, pull it out, and give me the machine back sans drive. So far so good. But can they just give me the new drive when they get it in? Nope. I have to lug in the whole (50lb) Quad back into the store for them to do the reinsertion.

The store guys were cool about it, but they aren't allowed to let me do the work.

It turns out my Quad is part of the power supply recall so I have to lug it back to the store again for a power supply swap. Happy happy joy joy. I just love dragging that thing a half mile from the mall parking lot to the Apple store.

Regarding the MacBook drive: Removing that drive is not the easiest I've ever seen, but it's about the same as most. That is a huge improvement over the old PowerMacs whose design was such that you had to wonder if they deliberately made it impossible for an end user to get to the drive. So, I give Apple thumbs up for that particular arrangement.

The hard drive on my 12" PowerBook started showing signs of failure late last week. I went out of town for the holiday, and upon my return I got online and snagged an appointment with a "Genius" at the Apple store 15 minutes from my home. It was VERY busy in the store, lots of holiday shoppers, but I was seen just 5 minutes later than my appointment time and was told I would have a new hard drive in 3-5 days (at no additional cost - I have Apple Care). I went home and received voice mail 2 hours later saying my computer was fixed and ready for pick up. I will be heading over there this afternoon.

Great experience for me - sorry to read about all of the others who haven't had the same level of service. BTW, my husband went through an identical situation 3 weeks ago with his 15" PowerBook. He had his hard drive replaced in record time. Maybe our particular Apple store is just a shining beacon of great customer service. Besides my concerns over both of us almost simultaneously losing our hard drives on 2 and 3-year old machines, I am a definite Mac convert.

BTW, the store where we received such great service is in Phoenix at the Biltmore.

i've never had any problems myself with support from Apple but i was always under the assumption that their support system was horrible...unless you publicly embaress them ;-)

I have an iMac G5. The optical drive failed. I went online to Apple's DYI section and answered some simple questions. They authorized the replacement part. It was received via DHL the following day. I opened the back of the iMac and replaced the drive. Put the old drive in the box provided by Apple, called DHL and by 5 PM they had picked up the old part. My experience so far has been excellent with Apple service. I do have AppleCare on everything however, so that might make the difference.

Interestingly, my Apple Warranty repairs have mostly been horrible, while my out of Warranty have been smooth. I am lucky enough to have 2 independent Mac repair shops in town: YES Computers took almost three weeks to replace a power supply, after calling Apple to find out the issue - Never going there again. The Core Solution Group (with Brown Computer in VT) repaired my PBG4 screen in 24 hours, and found out, after Apple telling me it was out of warranty, that it had 6 days still under warranty.

The Dells I work with, well, 50/50 on those also. One bad keyboard still bad after almost a month, and many tech visits. Another replaced/repaired in 24 hours.

At least the Apple guys were super friendly, the Dell guy was just a drone here to replace parts A, B and C ... nothing more.

I've had good and bad experiences with both Dell and Apple, but I'd like to compare just my most recent. While living in the US about 2 yrs ago, I had problems with a Dell Inspiron (bad video card). I used all the supplied Dell diagnostics and did some differential analysis of my own. The Dell service rep repeatedly asked silly, script-based questions and tried to force me to redo the diagnostics step-by-step, ignoring the data I'd already given him. Finally after about 1.5 hrs on the phone, he agreed that the video card was bad (which it was) and the laptop was shipped off for warranty repair. Contrast that with Apple service in, of all places, Cape Town South Africa. I had a logic board problem on a 15" PowerBook. Local dealer (Project 3) said "ja, covered under AppleCare, but sometimes takes a couple days to get parts from Joburg..." Within a week, I had perfectly repaired notebook.

Totally opposite of my experience with a G4 iBook dead drive (I bought this 15 months after these were discontinued, at a school store. Warranty began with the sale to me, not manuf. date). FWIW, it's a minor nightmare to get to the drive on this laptop--the MacBook is a doddle in comparison. But I digress. Diagnosed dead drive within 5 minutes of speaking to Apple Care rep. Was offered Genius bar, *or* ship it in for repair. Empty box arrived on my porch the next morning, then was picked up within *15* minutes of my calling DHL. Back in my hands, fully repaired (in Tennessee; I live in California), 60 hours later. I couldn't be happier.

To compare this to Dell's sending a $90 HD in a box; labor = 0; logistics = near zero, is just silly. I can get a cheap HD and jam it in myself at Frys' a 5 minute drive.

In mid-November my 4-month old MacBook Pro 17" died. It made a beeping sound and would never start up again. I had the same experience others have mentioned in having to take it to a local Apple Store and being told they needed a part, and then another part, and then they didn't know what to do so they sent it away for repair. It is six weeks now and still no communication about what is wrong or when it might be repaired/returned.

My past experience with Apple was fantastic. My old laptop had some keys that stopped working and Apple got it repaired in 1 day by sending me a box and returning it by mail. I was amazed and impressed so I have no clue that this time I would get the service from hell. It's comforting to know that others are experiencing similar problems but distressing to learn that apple customer service has gotten so bad.

I'm a loyal Apple customer since the early 80's. They should really not alienate their core customer base. Wish me luck on getting it back.

More proof that Apple, maker of perfect iPods and perfect accessories and perfect fifth-pocket jeans for perfect Steve Jobs isn't perfect.

In my opinion, if you would have dealt directly with Applecare, you'd have been much better off than if you went to the store. I know that it's annoying that it's not easy to remove the HD on the Macbook, but that's a sacrifice made for size, I believe. That's why for Applecare, you need to send the whole machine in for a hard drive problem. In my experience with Applecare, I always just had them send me the return box and I got things back in a very timely manner.

Dell is striving to resolve customer issues on the first call if at all possible. We're not yet where we want to be, but it's heartening to read that our efforts are being noticed.

I've had similar experiences, but I had to fight with Apple care because I used to live in a remote community (7 hour drive to nearest apple store) luckily (for them) I was going to the city in a couple days. In the store I didn't have a problem though. With regards to dell I was the IT guy for a company, and it got to be routine to replace the psu and/or cpu after power surges during a particularly harsh winter and I could have a standard warranty call wrapped up in 30 mins or less and two days later have the parts in hand (gold service took less time on the phone but still same shipping time.) During the battery fiasco it was easy as pie to get replacements, I went to their replacement website, plugged in the serial numbers and in less than a week I had replacements in, none of my macs were affected by the recall though so I cant speak to their side of the recall.

I had a relatively good experience with repairing something through the apple store. The connection on my Ibook screen was going (it had to be opened at a certain angle for the screen to work). Basically I diagnosed it myself, but went to the genius bar to get a second opinion after looking around for someone to fix it, he tested it agreed with me and gave my my options. I had them send it back to apple to get it fixed though he said it could take a week he said i would probably get it back in 2-3 days. He was right I got it back in 2 days...less than 48 hours. Not only had they fixed it they cleaned it up and replaced the missing little rubber feet, and fixed whatever was wrong with connection to the power cord (that I had long ago learned to live with) without any additional charge.

It was a hassle bringing it to the apple store (but I live where there is one close to work and another close to home so it is not so bad). It was quicker and easier than having to ship it out myself and probably safer and cheaper in the long run. The price on the repair was in line with the places I talked to and with not alot of Apple repair options/parts available without shipping it out or ordering the parts online it was probably just as quick if not quicker.

Probably would have been better for you to be sent to an authorized service provider. We can turn around repairs in 48 hrs or less - including parts shipments.. but there are less and less of us around. Apricott Associates services most of NY (and NYC), Northeast PA & South Florida

I've had good results so far with AppleCare.

When I had an iMac G5, I had to replace the logic board / midplane due to the faulty capacitors problem. After diagnosis, they shipped me a new board and instructions, I swapped things out, and the faulty part went back to Apple via DHL (with no money out of my pocket).

When the power supply went flaky six months later, the local Apple Store (Houston Galleria) had a new one installed within two hours of me dropping the system off.

So far, I'm crossing my fingers and have had no problems whatsoever on either my Core Duo 20" iMac or my May-2006-manufactured MacBook.

Yeah, alteast you didn't have an ibook die on you - that requires an almost complete dissasembly of the Laptop to get to the HD.

Let's hear the excuses Mac fans. Nice read.

I've had similar experiences with Apple support. Including them REFUSING to let me purchase Apple Protection Plan for a PowerBook only a few DAYS after it expired. Nothing wrong with the unit, just wanted to extend the warranty!

I work at AppleCare. The agent pretty much blew it in referring you to the Apple Store. Call back, ask for a senior-level agent if need be, but really really ask for a hard drive to be sent to you. (Unlike the MacBook Pro, the MacBook has a customer-installable hard drive. Woohoo!) The drive will be delivered overnight. Sorry for the experience--

I gotta say, they only problem I have ever had with a parts replacement, or any failure with my Macs, has been post-warranty. I have never had any issue with an item still under Applecare, ever.

I had some bad support once when they were temporarily using support in India, and the support staff there told me I had to buy the latest OS to fix the problem (a bad video card driver).

I've been using Macs in their various incarnations since the Apple IIe, and I also used several different PCs for my employer and their software requirements. I'm extremely satisfied with my Apple experiences over the years, but I'm also open to learning more about any service failures.

Happy Hogmanay to you all!

Apple always ships me replacement hard drives without a question. Maybe I am lucky. The quicker way is to take the machine to a local service provider. They seem to get hard drives faster then I from Apple.

you COULD just ask them to overnight a box to send your macbook in and you could skip the genius bar altogether. Obviously the macbook/mb pro are not user servicable when it comes to the harddrive. Sure you could...but if you are poking around in there it could void your warranty.

I'm more interested to see if you get a NEW harddrive from apple rather than the refurbished unit dell will send you.

My Dad lives on Oahu, so when I am out there I go to the Apple store @ Ala Moana Shopping Center and IMHO, the customer support sucks there. My experiences with support on the mainland is usually way better.

Well i have been a Mac user for 15 plus years and for some reason most of my new macs have been serviced more than all of my older stuff put together. One thing i have learned is you never goto the Apple store to see a Genius for hardware service, because they send out 99% of machines to Flextronics for repair. Find a local Apple Reseller/Service Center for almost immidiate repair. I live in California in Santa Monica and got MACEXPERTS on lincoln. They offer rush service 24 hour turnaround and loaners as well. I got the Apple store if i have time to waste other than that Apple Reseller

I gotta say I've had 2 laptops into Apple in the last 6 months and they each had to be shipped back to apple's repair center in Texas 2 more times to get them fixed correctly. So I guess the problem doesn't end when you ship the laptop to apple. However, they were nice over the phone and in person at the apple store.

I work network support for a large hospital in New Orleans with around 8,000 users, I have always had excellent response from Dell for everything from parts to complete replacement units.

Step outside of Steve's reality distortion field, and the realities of Mac ownership hit you in the face. Dude, stick with Dell.

Neither recommended data recovery?

I recently had the HDD in my 17" mac book pro go and instead of taking my mac to a mac store they sent me a box to ship the mac to them did so and i get it back in about 3 days witha new HDD in it wasn't to bad for me

My experience with Dell depends entirely on what time of day I call, and which toll free number I choose to call in with. Sometimes I would get the US call centre, sometimes one in Mexico, and sometimes one in India. The guys in Mexico seemed to be the hardest to convince to move away from the script... It was easier to wait until the other call center took the hand off than to try to fight them.

"I don't need to reformat; I'm getting memory errors using your own diagnostics CD."

you're writing style is very confusing

A lot of that sounds like bad timing for Apples system. Any other time of the year in most locations, your repair would have been faster than waiting for the box from Dell, sending your drive back and waiting for them to send the new drive.

Sounds like you hit a lot of unfortunate circumstances, it'd be nice if there was a backup plan but there's not yet.

You must push the agent on the phone to repair the machine. They will do it if you push. They are required to. Then its a 3 day wait - one to ship laptop to them, one to ship it back and the middle.

i had to get the case on my ibook replaced because i cracked it. it took 2 days, shipped overnight to the repair center and back.
I win, you lose.

(Houston) Dude I went through the same thing over a freaking power cord(last gen before mag). Assholes had twenty of them for store use and wouldn't sell me one. I offered full price. Genius looked one up on Ebay for me though, that was really cool of him. They need more fundage in lieu of their gay apparel.

I'm an apple certified technician and I was formally employed at Microcenter. We rarely had an issue with apple. In fact, Apple was one of our preferred vendors when it came to warranty repair. The catch is that Microcenter is an Apple Authorized Service Provider. We don't have to go through the red tape that the average customer does and we usually get parts in about 2 to 3 business days. Customers can usually have their system fixed within a few days. However, we couldn't even talk to Dell.

I've sidestepped the whole Apple Store deal by insisting on them letting me send my notebook in for repair.

matt-

had the same type of symptom with my macbook, but backlight was also out. agree with everyone who finds apple retail repair experience less than ideal...poor communication, poor turnaround time. i just hope apple's rep for hardware keeps this mess from happening again.

BTW next time you need to go to the Genius Bar, set your appointment here: http://concierge.apple.com/store/R073 Of course, they probably won't meet your appointment time exactly but it is better than walking into the store to setup your appointment.

Hard Drive problems? Check out www.spinrite.info - it comes with a 100% money back guarantee and works extremely well. Downside is that you need to plug it into a PC, it doesnt work on a mac.

You can fix your hard drive in your home, without sending it away most times. Check out the site above for testimonials.

PS I do not work for GRC (the company who produce spinrite). The only association that I have with the product is that I have saved several hard drives (including my master backup drive) from imminent failure and data loss!

My experience with Apple was a little more positive. My 3 year-old AlBook caught a nasty case of narcolepsy; it would constantly wake up, go to sleep, wake up, sleep, etc. After some Googling, I traced the problem to a faulty ambient light sensor near the power button.

So, I made a quick backup via Target Disk Mode and set up Genius Bar appt. online through Concierge and dropped by the Apple Store. I told the tech I was an IT professional, showed him a printout of the problem, and he overnighted my laptop to Texas and let me grab a file off of my external hard drive by plugging it into a Mac at the store. Their support depot fixed my PowerBook the next day, and it was back in my hands the day after that.

So, there's my tale. Glad that you got everything fixed, at least!

Anonymous: YOUR spelling is atrocious. :)

I have an old g3 iBook that was covered under the logic board replacement plan. Every 8 months the motherboard goes out, I call up Apple they send me a box and I ship it out, I get it back in about 3 days at my door. The best part though is that if there are any missing keys or the display hinge is tweaked, they fix it for free. They even replace the little rubber feet on the bottom

I have had nothing but horror with dell support, and good experiences with Apple support. I think you just got lucky with dell, and with apple I can't say.

i had a similar problem with my powerbook (12"). after talking with apple care (the extension, not pro care), they overnighted a hard drive and had me send the old one back. the only problem that i've had with them is their shipping company. dhl is terrible. they left my powerbook outside on one occasion, and damaged it on another.

I've had a horrible experience trying to get my MacBook Pro hard drive replaced. I called AppleCare for a hard drive replacement, got them to agree it was a hardware issue and not a software issue, and sent it in. They sent it back with the exact same hard drive! They replaced the logic board though. It was a 100GB hard drive and would only format to 30GB. I called and told them that I got the same hard drive, and they thought the hard drive was fine, I just needed to run 'repair disk permissions'. Finally they took it back and put in a new hard drive.

But the machine failed again! This time the HD wouldn't mount, so I sent it in, and they put the repair on hold because they found physical abuse to the machine and missing HD mounting screws from the previous time it was taken apart. I called and talked to them for an hour to convince them that I had never taken the machine apart, but I had sent it into apple twice before, and they were the only ones who had taken it apart. I asked them since this machine was a dud, and had been physically abused by an Apple tech, could I get a replacement machine and they said no. They were going to send the abused machine back to me after repair.

So today I check on the repair status and it is still on hold. I call AppleCare again and they can't find any record of the one hour I spent on the phone with them yesterday. After a lot of waiting, the woman today said she would fix the 'on hold' status thing. But the status is still 'on hold'.

So anyway, my AppleCare timeline:
2/17 got the machine (very early MBP model)
5/23 sent in machine with bad HD. Got back the machine with the same HD
6/06 send it in again for the same problem
7/11 battery swells up and won't fit in machine
11/3 power supply cord melts
12/19 send it machine again. Apple says that it was damaged by Apple techs from a previous repair. Puts repair status on hold. Called twice to get the hold removed, but it's still on hold.

Next time: A Dell or Toshiba with on-site support.

Hey Guys, Yeah Well, there are 10,000 of calls to app a day, Would
You get mistakes sometimes etc. Its a high impact roles, its not easy,

In my day to day job I work with Mac & PC, and stick primarily to Mac seeing how I much prefer Mac over any PC, but when it comes to support quality, when dealing with our Dell's and Mac's, Dell has Apple beat hands down.

As the issue was hear, when a part is bad on a Dell and I have correctly done what is needed to prove that a particular part needs to be replaced, I will have the new part in my hands by lunchtime tomorrow.

With Apple, I can again have it understood that a particular part needs to be replaced but with having it shipped up here in Canada it can take upwards of a week to get the part. In the US I think it's a couple days. Also, they would not ship the parts without having me give them a VISA in the chance the part does not get returned. With Dell, we just get the part. It's fast, and easy to send back.
As much as I love Apple, they need to re-look how they work with their customer support. At least here in Canada.
I have had many troubling support calls with Apple and each time it seems that when I make a support call to Apple, I'm almost sure I end up talking to someone at the end of the support given to make a complaint about the service.
Anyways, to each their own.

apple is all good, but i work for an apple service provider and am one of the only apple techs' there. i also have to work on dell's from time to time. anyways authorized apple service providers are generally a much better place to take your mac. we have atleast as much experience as the "genious's" if not more and work on everything in shop. i could have possibly had this machine completly repaired within 24 hours. and also so what if you have to take out a small metal bezel under the battery, ever try replacing a hard drive on an ibook?

I've worked for Deel suppoort (via Stream).

Dell may have a reputation for selling PCs to 'PC illiterate' customers, but the reality is that is you know what you are talking about Dell support reps are the easiest to work with. They'll happily send you a new component if you can demonstrate a good knowledge of PC innards.

I have to admit that as much as I love my apple and they seem to last longer than the dell's, Apple really needs to improve support. I think the main reason businesses shy from Apple is lack of next business day support.

Sounds like a Dell business account and a personal Apple support.

I just bought my first mac a few months ago, a new macbook 13". The first one I got, the battery wouldn't charge due to a PMU issue. So, my next chance I took it to the King of Prussia PA Apple store (I live in MT but work in Philly - received in in MT). I told the Mac Genius that I had a PMU issue as I had researched it throughly. He was also quite upset that I went and upgraded the hdd to 160GB myself and 2GB RAM also by myself, and told me that the problems were stemming from my doing upgrades myself. I almost went postal on the guy as I told him it's incredibly insulting that he talk to a customer like that, and that I therefore wanted them to replace the computer on the spot since I only had it 3 weeks and I didn't live within 2400 miles of an Apple store. He promptly went into the back room and didn't come back out!

20 minutes later another Mc Genius came out, and told me he would replace my battery as it's probably the battery with the problem. I told him I already had a second battery and had been through trying both with the same results. But since I couldn't the PMU to show it's problems that night in front of him, he wouldn't exchange it and I had to go home with a replacement battery. I told him I would see him tomorrow.

Two hours after getting home, and with the new battery, I got the PMU problem. I instantly took screenshots and e-mailed them to the Mac Genius, telling him I would be by at a particular time and I expected an exchange. I showed up at the store and he exhanged it, except he made me change the HDD and RAM myself as he told me that they can't do that in the store with aftermarket parts.

So, I get home, and a day later I notice they upgraded MacBooks to core 2 duo's, for the same price, and they dumped a regular core 2 on me without even letting me know that I could get more for the same price on the exchange.

So, I immediately called apple care and demanded an exchange on that new laptop. They said they would let me return it and would give me my money back minus 10% restock, and I had to order / pay for a new system. So, I kind of thought that was worth it and that they were helpful and reasonable. I ordered a new macbook, overnighted, and the ship-back box came 4 days later and I had my money back, and the upgrade I felt was worth the $140 restock.

However, the headphone port on the new backbook did not work properly. I seemed like it had a 3d effect turned on, and music sounded horrible. I spent time rebuilding the Mac OS (on a virgin HDD) as I thought maybe I had installed an AC3 driver that may have messed up surround processing. No go, it's the hardware. I call apple care and I work through things with her, and she's admits its the hardware and that I have to send the system back to them for replacement. I was like, well, this is my 3rd system and it was really a hassle as I had migrated all of my work to it, and I didn't want to give up the system for an indeterminate amount of time. She told me I could then just take it to an Apple store and they could swap it for me as it was within the 14 days. Of course I was back in MT, but I was going back out to Philly in a few days and that I would do it that way. I got a case # and decided to take it right to the store from the airport.

So, I arrive in Philly a few days later, and take the train from the airport directly to the Ardmore Apple store (I didn't want to deal with the KoP store again), still dragging my luggage with me. I had already made a Mac Genious bar appointment and arrived before hand. I told the Genius there that I had problems with the sound port, that I had dealt with Apple care, had a case #, and that I was told they would just exchange it on the sport.

Of course that would be too simple. He had to try to listen to it to see if there was a problem. He listened, and said he didn't hear a problem, but that he also didn't recognize any of my music so he couldn't really tell (yeah, things like Rush, AC/DC, Metallica, Star Wars CD's,...). So I said how can you possibly not telll there was a problem? So, he put some of his music on it, and I offered him my Bose QC2 headphones to try, at which point he told me "Oh, that's your problem - those noise reducing headphones sould horrible!" I almost lost it. I had those, my Sure earbuds, and all the ipod earphones in that store, and he was trying to say the problem was with my headphones and not with the obvious problem with the laptop. I lost it at that point and literally yelled at him that it was within 14 days and he should just swap the unit as I originally asked and was told by apple care.

So, he went in the back and got a new system. I then told him that I had upgraded RAM and HDD, and of course that caused a big bruh-ha-ha again. However, at this store they apparently can change that themselves, and he did, but at the end he told me that I was lucky as they usually charge $30 doing such but he would wave it for me. Also, he informed me that I should also be nicer when coming in with a problem. I bit my lip, put the computer in my backpack, and just left the store hoping to never have to deal with Mac Genius' again.

The 4th system has been running fine for about 6 weeks now, and I'm real happy with it now that I have one that works. OSX is great, and I can run Windows/.NET for many of my customers that I do custom development work for.

However, the Mac Genius' are pompous jerks. I took the time the second time to notice that their clientel are mostly people that don't seem to deal with hardware much and need that kind of assistance, but if you are someone who can work with the system yourself, have some smarts, and want to direct them, they get really arrogant. I don't know if it's a mac thing that people are more hands off with their hardware, but I just don't like being treated like that for being someone who's been building/modding sytems for over 20 years and just want a working computer to work on.

i've not had any run ins with apple repair department specifically, but have one two occasions had to deal with their general support (once with ipod and another time with quicktime). both times i ended up solving problem myself. both times it was a real issue (as opposed to something fixable by rebooting). both times i was denied by apple support staff the credibility that that was the case. their response was basically there's something wrong with my box.

i did have one support story with dell. i bought a pizzabox server (rack mount) which ended up being a piece of junk. one of their at the time brand new models, lots of kinks. neither myself (and my staff) nor dell themselves had any idea what was malfunctioning, however, dell would send replacement parts just to try things out and ultimately we managed to stabilize the box. it was still a piece of crap (and i've not bought servers from dell since) but as far as their support i should certainly commend them.

just my $.02 worth

ps. for what it is worth, i own both, pc(s) and mac and value benefits of either. i dont consider myself exclusively affiliated to either camp.

I agree that Apple should be taken to task for poor service, but your One More Thing(TM) is rather trivial: the (in)frequency of actually changing drives or inserting additional RAM, removing three screws and a metal strip is hardly an issue. I did both on my black MacBook and it's the last thing I'd be griping about.

Anyway, back on lost productivity, if you were a more hard core user, you'd have already swapped the standard (slow, bulk discount, 5400rpm) drive for a much speedier Seagate Momentus 7200rpm 100GB drive (~ $180) and wouldn't have had the warranty issue in the first place. :P

cgw3 you must have been unlucky, i spoke to dell customer support last month about getting some software cds sent out to me and the techie i spoke to had a broad irish accent,

although having dealt with both apple and dell customer support about my notebook (dell) and my old ipod when it died on me both are exceptional :) dell over nighted me the cds and the lil rubber feet under the laptop and apple overnighted me a prepaid postage box arranged a courier to pick up the box a day later, diagnosed the problem and sent me a brand new ipod as a replacement within 3 days :)

Whenever i have calleed apple support for my powerbook they recomend me going to the apple store, i say that is not convientent for me and request abox to be sent. They overnight me a box, with prepaid overnight shipping. Sometimes my total turn around time is less than 4 days. And ebfore you say that they only reason they send me a box is because i live to far from an Apple Store, i actually lice close to 3 apple stores.

Funny you have the same computers I have. A dell latitude and a macbook. Thing is, i hate the dell latitude. It's a noisy, slow machine. The macbook is quiet as a mouse and sleek as a gazelle. I have to use both- one is required for work reasons.
Ultimately- it sounds like either way the problem can be fixed. How often do we plan on hard drive failures? Not that often. So- it's a pain in the rear moment with the macbook - one that can be worth it to many users. Thank you for your review.

in china, the applecare s...ks a lot more than other places as I think! after buying a 3 year extension-programm for my old powerbook, and I repaired this powerbook in germany, the local applestore looks up my serial-no to ensure that my machine is still valid for the garantie, but they found that my powerbook is already out of the garantie, they asked me to contact with china apple to make sure they had update the database after purchase, a email send to china apple, they reply to confirm that the serial-no had already added to the international applecare database, after several days go back to the same applestore in germany, they are still telling me, your serial-no is not in the database, so we can't repair it free of charge for you. contact with china apple, again, they are sure that my serial-no is in the database, go back to apple store in germany, still don't. OH,Gosh. I give it up!!! am I a football just for people kick around? go to local store, buy one harddrive for 60euro, replace all by myself, the machine is reborn...

I am an onsite tech for Dell. That's right, they send me the parts and I go out to fix things. So even if you were not comfortable changing out the HD yourself, they would have sent a guy like me out. Just about the only company out there who still does this. I replaced a keyboard and two other hard drives today. Sure, I deal with laser printers and other stuff that can get complicated, but the bread and butter of what I do is hard drives and motherboards. You students keep buying those Dell laptops. You're going to put my kid through college.

Not to sound like a shill for Dell or anything, but they have gotten a bad rap, I think undeservedly, regarding tech support and repair.

Yay!
These have been my findings over the years with both Dell & Apple dead-hardware problems. I'm glad someone finally made it public! Apple's support for dead hardware unfortunately really sucks. :-( what's worse, is that they will take your laptop, ship it off somewhere and you'll be entirely without it for around 10 days, and too bad if you just happen to make your lively-hood with your laptop! Their tech support really really doesn't care.

My 2 year old 12" Powerbook G4 had the hard drive go out in it about 5 months ago. Luckly, I have applecare so I just called in and after about 20 minutes of over the phone diag the rep gave me a case number and I recieved a pre-paid shipping box at my door the next day. I had my computer in the mail the same day and recieved it back with a new hard drive 2 days later including a detailed description of what was done to my computer in the hands of the apple people. I think apple support is the best I have ever dealt with. I am sorry you got a bum applecare tech who sent you to the store.

Not to wish you any ill will, but I wonder which machine will go again in the near future? It sounds like the Dell folks have this down to a process and I speculate that it's because they have to do it often. What gives me that idea is the single screw comment at the end.

Good luck with the mac hardware swap! Sounds pretty inconvenient for a company with retails stores spread out...

I had the opposite experience.

I had the DVD drive on my Dell laptop die at about the same time as my hard drive on my ipod last year (Nov 05).

The ipod was only a month old, the laptop was 10 months old, but I purchased the most expensive warranty dell offered: full replacement and damage protection with tech support for three years. The Dell warranty was a couple hundred dollars.

I called Dell and was lead through many things I had already tried. After an eternity with the broken-english rep, he told me that I would have to return the laptop to them and they would send a replacement or repair. The wait was estimated at 4 weeks.

The ipod was simple. I filled out a form on the apple site. Two days later I received an empty freight-paid box in which to return the ipod. Two days after that I had a new ipod.

My next laptop will certainly be an apple, and not a dell based on this experience.

Sorry to hear of your troubles. While I don't have any experience with Apple, I have extensive experience dealing with Dell. At work, one of my functions is to manage a small fleet of Dell laptops. I've learned that the biggest obstacle in getting it repaired is persuading the tech that it really is broken and to avoid the bogus trouble shooting steps. Sadly, I've found that this is often more difficult to accomplish with Indians that it is with non Indians. I'm not sure why that is. Nevertheless, once the tech is on board then everything works just great. I've called at 5 PM, on more than one occasion, and had my parts by 10 AM the next day. When the repair requires an office visit by a repair tech I've found similar excellent service, with all problems resolved within two days. I'm glad to be a Dell business customer.

However, everything isn't always that simple. Recently we extended the "no fault" warranties on the laptop fleet to the tune of several thousand dollars. At the outset, the rep made some simple errors. We wrestled with rep after rep for six months, trying to get everything fixed the way we originally wanted, but to no avail. Overall, I am generally pleased with Dell.

Somewhat similar experience for me, on the apple side of things. Had the system drive eat it on a Mac Pro that I only had for a week. Made a Genius Bar appointment online that morning. By 11am I lugged that shiny new sucker in there. Arrive and 3 people there ahead of me, 2 Geniuses running the bar. Diagnosed dead hard drive. Had none in stock, wouldn't have it shipped it to me. Now this is the Mac Pro, with easy slide out drive bays, anybody could do it. I had to take the whole thing back later when the drive came in. They're a computer store, you'd think they'd at least stock the standard issue hard drive.

When I broke my latitude screen, Dell shipped it out to Tennessee and Back to California in 3 days. Oh, and it was ok for me to remove my hard drive, since it voids apples warranty when you do. When I broke my Latitude keyboard they shopped me a new one in 3 days as well. They work great if you have a good warranty plan. I have not had any problems with apple, but I only own ipods. The one thing that I did notice was that even though I had a full/extended warranty on my ipod they always tell me to go into the apple store and see if it can be fixed. Wehereas dell just sends me the materials to fix or ship out my computer for free, less hassle.

I've been a Apple 'fanatic' for years, had my share of problems, generally taken care of in short order. Recently my G4 Al Powerbook's Optical Drive went belly up, no problem, I'd bought the Apple Care and registered. Wrong answer, word to the wise, always check to make sure it's registered. Apple Care person did some research, agreed with me that yes I did have a valid Apple Care. I opted to take it to the Genius Bar, Yep, optical drive dead, sent it in. Came back with a new Optical Drive and a New HD. Sure am glad I backed up that sucker, of course the power supply on the drive I used fried. Another word to the wise, don't mess with Seagate. Took me a week to get through to them that I needed a new PS. Finally got to give them my CC#, that was 3 friggin' weeks ago, no PS. I'm about to write it off and get a new case, faster and easier or shove it in one of my desktops and get the data off.

I work at a large university in upstate NY, and we have a fair amount of Dell and Apple products. Since we do buy a lot of products for both units, the service calls usually aren't as painful as a non-edu/commercial customer would be. That being said, i'd prefer to call Dell ten times than to call Apple once. In particular: Apples dead pixel lcd policy is ridiculous...Dell just sends a replacement, nearly no questions asked. But Apple, they want 4 to 6 dead pixels at least. That being said I did get an lcd replaced with only 1 dead pixel, but boy did I have to yell at them... :)

Receiving support from Dell in Australia is near impossible. All of they're service representatives are outsourced to India and have the lowest English skills imaginable.

Shame really.

Interestingly it must depend greatly on where you live. In Tas here we have had Dell come on site and repair two laptops. The machines never left the office. all work done on-site and parts within 24hrs.

There is only one apple shop here and they said they can't possibly match Dell for onsite repairs.. It wasn't a matter of money.. They just couldn't do it.

Given our need to have machines have minimum downtime, Mac's can't be considered in this area.

Pity.

I speak about Apple Care, but I've had two good experiences with Dell (USA). Both were hard drive failures (Maxtor) and each time I had a replacement sent out within two days and with minimal fuss from the support agent. The first time they even sent a person out to install it.

I have never dealt with Dell Customer support, but I'm a Systems Administrator for over 200 Mac laptops and desktops, ranging from older G4s to the new Mac pros, and have seen a many dead drives.

From my experience, I've never had a problem getting a replacement drive as long as the machine had apple care. And I've certainly never been referred to "The Genius Bar" at the Apple store. I think that's completely ridiculous. I probably would have yelled at the guy for even suggesting that.

I've only had to go as far as doing a disk check with disk utility or the Apple hardware check - also included on the install DVD. Once that verified the dead disk, Apple would promptly mail a replacement drive for desktops or a box to ship the laptop back to Apple for repair.

Tell them that you did that and you shouldn't have a problem.

Let me tell you what happens to a Mac user in Singapore.
My 3 year old AluBook's HDD failed suddenly last month. I went to the biggesst Apple in Singapore right away and waited for 20 minutes only to meet a non-genious (there is no Genius Bar here) person who claimed he was a technician. I told him what happened, the report of AppleHardware Test, and a few other diagnostic results. He, then, turned on and forced off SEVERAL times! Then said, "yes, it had failed". Then he said I should buy 80G 5400RPMone to replace. Price? US 160! (outside Apple, 80 USD). And he said it would take 3days even there was a stock. So I asked what if I bought one outside and let them replace it? He said the service charge would be US 160! Was their HDD then free? So I gave up with them, bought a Seagate 120G 5400RPM at USD 100 and replaced it myself following iFixit site's instruction. Took 20 minutes to finish.
This is what happens outside US. Well, Hong Kong and Japan were much better than here indeed. South Korea...not too bad.
Oh, when I had a chance to report to Apple Singapore re this, they said, "so what? you were out of warranty and fixed it yourself. So? Why are you reporting this now?"
This is a response from APPLE STORE at WHEELOCK, Singapore.

I'm a former Mac Genius, so I may have some insight into this story and the comments below. I can't address everything but I'll try to add some signal to this page :)First, please understand that quite often, an Apple Store or AppleCare call center is extremely busy. Apple doesn't impose hard time limits on helping customers but practically speaking, you can't take forever because you always have more customers coming/calling in. Second, many people seem to think that they are the only (or most important) customer Apple has, and that they are entitled to whatever service they demand- regardless if it is technically incorrect, physically or logistically impossible, or just plain prohibited by Apple policy (yes, Genii and AppleCare agents have to follow rules established by management.) Third, quite often, customers will come to the wrong conclusion about the cause (and correct resolution) of their problems. A broken computer is bad, a misdiagnosis resulting in a STILL-broken computer (after it was supposedly repaired) is worse.Though it may seem frustrating to be directed to go to a local Apple Store, consider that the Genius Bar is a service which NONE of the other major computer vendors offer- free, in-person, walk-in technical support. A Mac Genius is trained to troubleshoot and resolve your problem and has likely seen it or something similar a few (dozen/hundred) times before. Genii also have access to non-public repair manuals, Knowledge Base articles, and iCommunicate articles as well as other Genii, so the chance that they know something you don't is fairly good. No, they aren't perfect and sometimes the fixit process can be frustrating all around. Still, the number one focus for the stores is customer service, and most employees genuinely want to solve your problem and send you home satisfied. Most customers do leave happy, with their problems solved, and the number dissatisfied is fairly small.As to repair specifics, the Apple Stores do ALL desktop repairs in store. Displays are normally sent to Jabil in Louisville KY, while portables can sent to either Flextronics (Memphis, TN) or CTS (Houston, TX) depending on model. The local store does have the option to repair portables onsite- ProCare customers are almost always offered onsite repair while non-ProCare repairs are up to the Geniuses discretion based on workload, customer need, and parts availability.If you have an issue with your repair, your best bet is to work with the Geniuses and management on a resolution. Remember that Apple processes thousands of repairs a week, and, unfortunately, some are going to be problematic. As long as you are polite and understanding, store employees will generally bend over backwards to help you out. I've personally approved replacement computers (CRUs), authorized free repairs (CS Codes), expedited non-ProCare repairs, and otherwise found ways to help a customer on hundreds of occasions. Store managers and Genii have wide latitude to do whatever is necessary to take care of a customer-take advantage of that.One final piece of advice- have good backups! A Mac Genius can repair, reinstall, reconfigure, reset, reload, or replace anything you bring in EXCEPT your data. It was a daily (several times daily) occurrence that a customer lost data, and I was usually close to powerless to help. Sometimes a commercial drive recovery service can (for a hefty fee) recover your data from a hosed HDD, but having good, tested backups is easier, cheaper, and quicker.

CGW3: I don't know why people assume just because Indians speak in a different accent, English is their second language. Many Indians (yes, even in India) speak better English than they do Hindi (or any other Indian language for that matter). The matter is that *you* have trouble understanding their accent.

Well, in the US Dell is making the move to bring support back into the country because customers didn't like the language barrier with the reps in India.

I'm now working for Dell Support and one of the reasons I took the job is because Dell has moved to what I saw as a very Apple Care like support model.

Personally I haven't had problems talking to Applecare and saying 'this is what's wrong, I've diagnosed it' and they send me the replacement part. (Or sent someone out to my house to replace the part in the case of a Logic Board.)

Dell has moved to the same sort of model, if the tech can prove that the part is dead, (if you say you've checked it there's no reason to do it again if you sound like you really know what you're doing.) then a replacement part is shipped out.

Personally I'd like to see this practice extend through every computer company. Its unfortunate that the poster had this experience with Apple, but I guess it depends on who you talk to when you call how your experience is and that holds true for anywhere.

I have had similar problems with apple repairs. I bought by powerbook 17" in august of 05 and my bought my boyfriend an ibook in december 05. both hard drives crashed a year and two days after i bought them. Unfortunately I don't live too close to an apple store so i was stuck talking to tech support on the phone. I opted for sending my powerbook in for a new hard drive and what was supposed to be a 3-5 business days turned into a grueling 5 weeks. I believe there is little to no communication between flextronics (the company apple sends repairs to in memphis tn) and apple. Everytime I would call apple they would have no idea what the status was on the repair (my repair status online said it was fixed and ready to shipped back out to me for 4 and a half weeks.) so.

not a very good experience with apple. something that i was really pleased with though, is that apple gave me a 90 day extension for apple care with my boyfriends ibook- because I called customer relations and made a complaint. that rocked, because I didn't expect that at all.

Prior to owning an Apple, I had never been told to go stop what I was doing, drive across town and wait in line at a retail store in order to have a repair made. I realize that the retail repair stores fit a certain demographic, but they absolutely suck for professional users. It is true that the Geniuses tend to be top notch, but I still don't want to deal with tech support in that manner. When I have a machine go down, I switch to another to do my work. I just want either the replacement parts or a box to send the thing back in to show up on my door within a couple of days. I do NOT want to bring it anywhere for service.

The next time I have to deal with Apple support, I probably will go to an authorized dealer instead of the Apple store. The people at the Apple store are nice and competent, but that stupid concierge drives me crazy. It may work if you are right next to the Apple store, but if you have to plan ahead in order to make time and drive across town, it really blows.

Statistical sample size: 1
Standard deviation: infinity
:-)

I think we need to remember that in the course of the day, Apple reps probably get hundreds of calls, and it is difficult to judge the level of the user no matter how advanced he/she may be. My experience in Japan: Apples break too much but are fixed fast; A refurbished computer may actually be more reliable than a new one.

I have never been asked to go to an Apple Store. They have always just sent out a box via DHL. Usual turn around time is 3 days. That isn't to say applecare has been perfect, the moron who turned the screw driver on my macbook stripped every screw he bothered to tighten, and didn't tighten the rest.

My (somewhat dated) experience with Dell support was fine--parts were shipped quickly, and the support staff knew when to bypass the decision tree. Unfortunately, the next machine was an HP--I will never buy a computer from HP again since the company refused to honor the warranty.

My Mac experience hasn't required trips to the "Geniuses," but I generally see long (and not happy) lines in the Northern Virginia area (Tysons Corner).

As someone who just spent almost two weeks waiting on a replacement for my (vital to my business as a programmer) Macbook Pro, I can assure you that Apple's support, once it is accepted that a replacement is required, is absolutely pathetic compared to companies that actually have to compete with others.

Don't get me wrong, the people involved are great, the hardware itself I believe to be better than the norm, but if they can't fix it on the phone or at the Bar, be prepared to live without your machine for a while.

Well I'm glad you've had a good experience with Dell. I as well own both a Dell Inspiron and a MacBook Pro. When I had problems with my Dell the phone calls were always routed to India and the wait time averaged around a half hour, and it would take days before someone could come out and fix it, (that was if the guy on the phone properly diagnosed it so that the tech had brought the proper parts with him which usually did not happen on the first try). With my Mac, on the other hand, I recently called AppleCare about a hardware problem, they diagnosed it over the phone as needing a new logic board. They wanted to ship me a box so I could mail it in, but I opted to bring it to the genius bar so it could be mailed out faster. They did tell me it would take 7-10 days, it mailed out the day after Christmas, on Tuesday, and I must say I was pleasantly suprised when it was back by Thursday, in just over 48 hours.

oh man boy, the apple computers are anyway better, because u ahve less probs with apple than with windows WINDOWS SUXXXXX

I am a Dell tech, and I can tell you, we recieve a lot of trainings, we recieve a lot of awards, and we really try to help our customers. the problem is that for some of them is really difficult to follow instructions because they dont have any idea about what they are doing. I am sure that we are improving, and we will be the best tech support soon.

racsim can't keep india from becoming Tech Superpower . Mathematically , technically indians are very sound , two out of every 10 american graduates ( degree graduates and not high school grads ) are Indian. Americans know how to play video games but do not know how to develop them , need mind , mere english accent won't stop India .

In general I would have to say the opossite is true for me. Dell is usally a 3-5 hour phone call to get them to do anything and as of late all the calls have been to inda. And i'm talking about something as simple as a Desktop HD replacement with audible broken hd noises. Apple has been good if you send it into them (they overnight a prepaid return postage box, you overnight it back, back to you in ather day or two). The Genius bar has been a horrible experience with a lot of inept people and long wait times.

If you say that you cannot get to an Apple store and insist that they do it by mail, then Apple will comply. They have to. REFUSE to go to an Apple store at all costs.

um ya... when a mac crashes, IT BURNS!

When the 20G Ipods came out in Canada, I ordered one from Apple ($500 CA). Although the hard drive never worked properly and songs would not load completely into the devise, apple just brushed me off saying it was fine. After 1 year and 5 months of ownership, the drive completely stopped working. As we don't have an Apple store in Montreal, I was forced to enter my credit card number on the apple site and send it in for a repair. At this point the new 30G videos were out, so I hoped they would replace it with one of those. Unfortunately they sent me back a refurbished 20G, charged me $300 CA and did not re-engrave the back (as their web site says they do).
Very disapointed with their service
My ibook just died the other day, I have been waiting for 1 week now for news.

I have spend my last dollars on this ultra unreliable piece of sh*t iDildo; wish that I didn't get caught up in their marketing hype. It almost seems like I spend more time looking for a solution to fix than enjoying the damm thing. And forget about bring it to those corner store where all they wanted is to get you buying another one just like it. ROTTEN PATHETIC apple/mac!

I purchased a dual 1.8ghz g5 powermac with 80gb HD, 512mb RAM a couple of years ago, in which the motherboard packed up. After a sickening amount of effort and phonecalls, and dealing with stupid, and dishonest staff, i ended up with a dual 2.3ghz, 500gb HDs and 2.5gb RAM... Tiger and an ipod nano. After continued problems with picking up my original machine, they let me keep both. Whilst i understand this process was by far not easy, with some research, and confidence, i managed to do quite well out of them... WITHOUT applecare.

That said, i am getting a powerbook in the next couple of days, and for £60 will save alot of effort if i have problems, by getting applecare. The law is tightening up on extended warentees here in the UK, and as such the confidence of knowing i have apple tight in a corner should problems arise, is worth £60 to me, any day.

Nearly all the service agents in the UK for whatever corporation are outsourced to India. Believe me it's not just Dell.

I have the solution to getting Dell service but using the MacOS. Do what I did, install the Mac OS, such as Kalway Leopard 10.5.1, on a Dell Latitude D600. That's what I'm using to type this while connected via built-in 802.11g.