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Weblog:   To push desktop Linux, radical shift may be required
Subject:   The Killer App is Ubiquity
Date:   2003-11-14 08:06:55
From:   anonymous2
What continues to hold Linux back is, in part, the same list of usual suspects as has always been there (difficult to maintain, too much reliance on the command line, dependency issues with installing applications, etc).


Many will argue that these problems are more issues of perception than real problems. I think that the biggest thing holding Linux back is people's perception of it.


The Average user, when confronted with something new, is not going to care about it if it offers them nothing or has no relevance to their daily computing life.


What we need is better visability in a positive light. We need role models in the form of avergae users who successfully migrated to Linux without giving up or losing anything. We need to make the connection between Linux and the desktop in the minds of the average user.


In short, Linux on the desktop needs to advertise. And it needs to show that Linux is everywhere - on the server, on the PDA, on the utility appliance, AND ON THE DESKTOP.


But we must answer the basic question that every potential user will have - "why should I bother? What is in it for me and what will happen to my ability to work/communicate with people still on Windows if I do switch?" But they are also going to want to know and care about what happens to their investment in Windows by switching to Linux.


So, yes, we need the office suites that seamlessly work with Micorosoft office file formats. We need IM clients and email tools that are every bit as good as the Windows version (if not better). We need to be able to tell them that they won;t need some of the utilities they bought for Windows because those problems do not exist on Linux or are handled automatically.


And we need to provide ease-of-use that IS BETTER than what Microsoft offers. "Just as good as Windows" will not drive the masses from Windows - it needs to be "insanely great" (with apologies to Apple).
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Showing messages 1 through 11 of 11.

  • The Killer App is Ubiquity
    2003-11-14 20:00:55  anonymous2 [Reply | View]

    What you are saying to me is that Linux suffers from a critical lack of integration and standards.

    Too many applications THAT DO NOT TALK TO EACH OTHER. That do not offer to hook into each other. Maybe what we have can be coaxed to hand files off one program to another, usually NOT. And usually you HAVE TO OPEN THE HOOD AND SWEAT, AND BLEED to make this happen, when it is possible at all.

    Too many toolkits, not enough standard components. Too many UI approaches, not enough binary compatibility.
    What if I write an application that does everything people want up to and including tickle their bells. And it's written for QT and assumes the existence of KDE components. WHat happens when someone who has only Gnome installed buys my application and tries to install and use it? Angry phonecalls and mounting support costs followed by loss of revenue.

    LINUX: WHAT A WASTE OF TIME FOR DEVELOPERS !

    When are people going to understand:
    Until there are some DIFFICULT DECISIONS made and a SINGLE LINUX DESKTOP SPECIFICATION arrived at, Linux will remain EXACTLY AS IT IS. Good server. A messy failure of a desktop.
    Soon enough and I mean like within 5 years at the outside, without major gains for Linux on the desktop, Microsoft W I L L succeed in tying the advanced features of their desktop OS and Office applications to the SERVER. and then it will be
    GOODBYE LINUX.

    Want the crappy situation you have now to continue until that final eclipse? Just keep on going in twenty different incompatible directions like you're going now.

    Or maybe you could try changing. At least give it A TRY. Since everything else has been tried and failed, you should at least give it a try once before MS applies the final flush to you.

    ENACT A DESKTOP LINUX SPECIFICATION --or stop wasting my time with your bleating cries of "NO FAIR, WE CAN'T COMPETE !"
    • The Killer App is Ubiquity
      2003-11-14 20:36:23  anonymous2 [Reply | View]

      You make many excellent points. I wholeheartedly agree that there must be a single vision/spec for Linux on the desktop - there is no other way to compete against Apple and Micorosoft otherwise.
      • The Killer App is Ubiquity
        2003-11-16 07:28:10  anonymous2 [Reply | View]

        I'm sorry but I'll have to disagree with you.

        Linux is NOT meant to be the same on every macjine, it's all about flexibillity.
        For example some (l)users might want it look one way and some would prefer something else.
        The point is that it's not aimed at one standart but at all of them, so that people can choose what they want.
        That is just opposite of M$ which tries to force users to do all their tasks the same way.

        And i prefer my machine to be suitable for me, not suitable for some M$ programmer that thought that would want Blue Screens of Death every 5 minutes.
        • The Killer App is Ubiquity
          2003-11-16 09:36:01  anonymous2 [Reply | View]

          if you want linux on the desktop to succeed,
          you should think about what Joe Average wants.
          Not what you want. Most people want their computer to juist work. Not tweak it.
          Flexibility is not the issue. They just want to start the engine and drive away.
          • The Killer App is Ubiquity
            2003-11-16 22:50:11  anonymous2 [Reply | View]

            If that's the case Linux is the perfect choice. No bsod, virus, freezes. You have more time getting your work done with Linux.
        • The Killer App is Ubiquity
          2004-05-11 07:44:33  dfgf [Reply | View]

          If it (Linux) is about flexibility, then by definition, it is not for the average joe. AJ wants conformance and standards. He wants it the same everywhere. The AJ doesn't know about or care to know about computers, as long as the icon he needs to click is in the same place on the computers (plural) he uses.
    • The Killer App is Ubiquity
      2003-11-15 05:35:28  anonymous2 [Reply | View]

      Good server. A messy failure of a desktop.

      One more M$ Troll that has never used the newer "versions" of Linux.

      When will trhese people give up Liunx IS the new OS for the NEW Generation.

      I have put susE 9.0 on to many home systems to count any more and EVERYONE has loved it even ex XP users comment on how much nicer looking KDE is and how stable linux is. No more rebooting 2 or 3 times aday.
      • The Killer App is Ubiquity
        2003-11-15 10:41:19  anonymous2 [Reply | View]

        Actually my friend I am an RHCE who installs Mandrake for people's desktops. LTSP for groups.

        I am probably moving away from using Linux as my own primary desktop and toward OSX.

        I have waited a long time for Linux to get its shit together. An IRRATIONALLY long time and you could say I'm sick of it. Every advance on the application usefulness side just heightens the frustration that these wonderful things just DO NOT WORK TOGETHER. Too many cooks cooking up too many toolkits and incompatible components. No UI standards for look and feel.

        Linux will not make any real progress --I mean towards mass acceptance among people with a CHOICE in the matter- until the people who make Linux distributions come together and first admit that the desktop is infinitely more complicated than the server and second commit themselves to creating a unified platform that independent software vendors can write desktop software for without worrying that

        a) the user won't have the needed requirements installed.
        b) Software that complements the function of their product won't easily integrate with it.
        c) Their software will be broken by the next release of the target distribution 6 months from now because of incompatible library versions, glibc changes, X changes, etc.
        d) the package manager won't know what to do with their package or how to fulfill/resolve dependencies when installation is attempted.

        There must be a SINGLE DESKTOP SPEC for Linux. If the user's distribution certifies against that spec, and it has a label attesting to this fact then the ISVs software will install without more than a click from the user (and a password) and the software will just run with reasonable defaults. It will know how to call the browser if needed or the email program, it will know how to call the filemanager open/save file dialog instead of using its own non-standard dialog. it will not break upon the next teeny to majpor number revision of the certified distribution's libraries. I have seen stuff compiled for windows95 and not touched since, install and run on XP. Obviously not everything can be like that but we also don't need the situation where an updated version of an installed packaged on Linux breaks something else, because the library they both depend on had to be changed with the update.
        The reason this happens is that developers are all on different library versions.
        For purposes of the desktop at least these need to be MUCH more tightly synchronized. No one should label as "Stable" a piece of software for the linux desktop that means a user of a recent major distribution has to upgrade a library, thus breaking something else. People who do this should be treated as though they had leprosy herpes and infectious tuberculosis.
        The only way for a reliable desktop for developers and users can come into being on Linux is through the elaboration of a prescriptive spec to govern these things and the need for distros to obtain and abide by a certification process that assures customers as well as developers that this distro will not give them problems. Nobody who doesn't want to participate will have to. There will always be a place for mini distros, non-standard wm style desktops and server oriented distributions. But the demands of desktop software require that a MUCH greater effort to standardize, synchronize and integrate be made.
        Else quit yer bitchin'.
    • The Killer App is Ubiquity
      2003-11-15 13:38:35  anonymous2 [Reply | View]

      > WHat happens when someone who has only Gnome installed buys my application and tries to install and use it? Angry phonecalls and mounting support costs followed by loss of revenue.

      > LINUX: WHAT A WASTE OF TIME FOR DEVELOPERS !

      Excuse me? I can take a 20 year old Unix program and compile it and have it work on Linux. Can you say the same about a 5 year old Windows program? Likewise, a Unix sysadm from 20 years ago would have no problems administering a Linux box. Now I don't know all that much about Windows, having given up on MS at about Windows 3.1 as they kept changing their OS interfaces so as to hide but not remove design flaws, but I suspect the only Windows administration skill that carries through from release to release is the technique of giving up and re-installing the OS after about 3 hours of trying to fix the problem.


      The only reason developers waste their time keeping up with Windows is because Windows has the market share. A developer has only to keep up with the 3 or 4 most recent Windows releases to be able to sell to 90% of the desktop market. And user's are used to being told the same line, which they hear repeatedly "upgrade your windows to make it work." These days will soon be history. When the MS monolopy collapses there will no longer be 3, or perhaps 4, operating systems out there. There will be many more. Your lament above, that you can't fix the user's problem by telling him the same story he's heard before "upgrade Windows", will be heard far and wide. You're going to have to come up with a solution other than "everybody must conform!" At least when dealing with developing technology. (How many times has the DirectX "standard" changed?) It's the future, get used to it.

      In the meantime, see freedesktop.org.
      • The Killer App is Ubiquity
        2003-11-15 22:04:14  anonymous2 [Reply | View]

        The fact that you mention compiling software in the context of a discussion on desktop usage shows how pathetically out of touch with reality you are. Don't worry you've got lots of company here in la la land.

        Users do not compile software to make it run on their desktops. Never. Ever. They don't even *install* software. They merely assent to its installation with fear and trembling. Please try to get out and meet some average personal computer users and wake the hell up already. They don't want to 'know the computer' and you damn sure won't force them to.
        • The Killer App is Ubiquity
          2003-11-16 19:36:51  anonymous2 [Reply | View]

          I mention compiling in the context of _developers_, not "typical desktop users". The post I respond to speaks of developers, I speak of developers. I leave it to the reader to decide which of us is in better touch with reality.
Showing messages 1 through 11 of 11.