Readable Java 1.5
Subject:   Cholesterol - WTF? - I want Smalltalk
Date:   2003-10-03 22:02:31
From:   anonymous2
Response to: Cholesterol - WTF?

Snif sniff, all these syntax sugar sucks!
I want Smalltalk!! ... sadly Java is so popular that I have to work with it :-(

The need for generics is a myth, from C++.
With today's method dispatching techniques -- like inline cache-- (researched by Sun in the Self Language) there is not really a real performance gain with generics, and static type checking.
In fact static type checking bothers in a OO lang... one example: the need of javabeans that makes extensive use of reflection.
I think that static type checking must be optional (like in StrongTalk... again another researh language of Sun)
And the use of Iterators makes poor encapsulation of container objects.
I like the Smalltalk collection aproach, with "code blocks", for example to call the "print" method in each element you can do:

aCollection forEachElementDo: [:elem | elem print].

note1: forEachElementDo is not language construct is a method of the aCollection instance.
note2: [ code ] creates an instance of Block

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Showing messages 1 through 5 of 5.

  • Cholesterol - WTF? - I want Smalltalk
    2003-11-04 19:30:35  anonymous2 [View]

    Generics arent all good because of any potential speed increase.

    They are all good because they enforce homogeneous collections - and provide errors at compile time instead of run time. Doing run time checking to enforce homogeneity is clumsy.

    I consider them to be like exceptions, a real bonus to increasing readability.
  • Cholesterol - WTF? - I want Smalltalk
    2003-10-16 15:22:58  anonymous2 [View]

    I like the way java actually works. I don't want a foreach, and I don't like the way generics would work.
    But I like java anyway.

    If you like codeblocks you should try ruby:

    aCollection.each {|elem| print elem}

    note1 and note2 stay valid ;)
  • Cholesterol - WTF? - I want Smalltalk
    2003-10-06 15:48:25  anonymous2 [View]

    Yeah, that must be why languages like C++ and Java are on the way out and Smalltalk is making such a strong comeback. Sheesh!
    • Cholesterol - WTF? - I want Smalltalk
      2003-10-16 08:58:25  anonymous2 [View]

      He definitely has a point -- have you tried out Ruby lately? If you do, you will never want to go back to the Java or C++ world.
      • Cholesterol - WTF? - I want Smalltalk
        2003-12-20 06:43:33  anonymous2 [View]

        You will if you want your code to run fast.

        Really, folks, the issue is about the Java 1.5
        syntax proposal -- all this stuff about what
        your favorite language is or what else you think
        should be done to Java is juvenile, egocentric,
        and rude to the author. There are a thousand
        forums where you can post your thoughts on
        those subjects.

        The variance syntax looks clearly superior.
        The type syntax looks nice, as long as the
        parser can handle it, but I doubt that you
        could ever convince Sun to switch from the
        angle bracket syntax used in C++, Pizza, etc.
        The eachof syntax is rather problematic,
        looking like an operator rather than a control
        structure. It makes plenty of sense in a
        language that has full-on iterators, like CLU or
        Ruby, but for Java it's out of place. Which to
        me is an argument for leaving the foreach
        operator out of Java 1.5 altogether, and coming
        up with a proposal for a proper iterator syntax.
        The foreach operator is non-orthogonal wart that
        violates basic language design principles.