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Book:   Better, Faster, Lighter Java
Subject:   almost
Date:   2004-06-29 07:13:21
From:   Anonymous Reader
Rating:  StarStarStarStarStar

"Do you want to be the COBOL developer of the 21st century?" page 9.


well you are, and it happened rather a while ago. the book goes about, oh, 2/3 of the way toward showing a fix for the problem. but msrs. Tate & Gehtland are not true database wonks (you can see it in how they talk about databases), and that remains the problem with java; especially the Enterprise variety. enterprise development without a deep understanding of data modeling is a travesty. java started as a client (applet) approach to language; we're still paying dearly for this 'small' view. as the authors point out, EJB isn't the answer. some of the answer is in the text; much of it lies in the world of relational database modeling.


put simply, java folk view data the way COBOL did before Dr. Codd and his 12 kids showed them the way to Application Independent Data Storage (tm). java folk think that their application is the only way into the data. the relational database is designed to support arbitrary access; treating it like a bunch of VSAM files (which is what 99.44% of java developers do; 'we don't need no stinkin foreign keys') is tres retrograde. this is why java will lose. it's data model is 35 years old.


even, perish the thought, should the java twinks get their way, users lose; their data is no longer open, but tied up in 0 NF databases and (God punish them severely) XML. tagged text files aren't 35 years old; their 40 years old.


the relational database is really what OO claims: data and its control in one place. java folk go around writing pages of stuff, when the proper solution is a 3 NF database with check constraints (and possibly other stuff, but still in the database WITH THE DATA).


remember the mantra: the DATA is the application, not the code. the best we can hope is that the coders don't screw up the data beyond repair.

Full Threads Oldest First
  • almost,  October 29 2004
    Submitted by Anonymous Reader   [Respond | View]

    It's interesting to read your prolonged discourse but as a piece unto itself but how does all of this relate to the book at hand?
    • almost,  February 09 2005
      Submitted by Anonymous Reader   [Respond | View]

      that discourse, and this, alas, attempt to explain why the quote should be "are" not "want to be". and what the bedrock problem is. the book tip-toes around the problem, but doesn't quite explain why the emporer is naked.

      so: in addition to the book, read a solid RDBMS theory book, Date comes to mind; and a solid applied RDBMS book, Elmasri/Navathe does come to mind. remember, when you're doing something that hasn't been done before, experience is a poor guide. you'll need theory to tell you what to do.

      as i said: the problem with Enterprise java development is that it has been a regression in data thinking. there is *no* Object Model in the way that there is a Relational Model. the latter *guarantees* data integrity/concurrency independent of any code. the so-called Object Model does little more than what COBOL/VSAM did in 1975: define and manage data *only* by specific application code.

      the corporate java systems i've seen (more than 1, less 1,000) are just re-writes of COBOL procs with java syntax. this is not progress.

      Bob