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Weblog:   The Great Python Framework/Application Debate
Subject:   Not winning but ...
Date:   2006-01-05 15:42:07
From:   nickpicker
Jeremy, I think you got it backwards. Kevin doesn't want to win for the sake of it, but he's in there to compete, which naturally implicits that at any given time there is one who is the best, and the others are good, too, but not as good as the best one.


The whole point that Kevin is trying to make is that if you introduced the concept of winning as in reaching the finish (hence the "one to rule them all" reference) then you discourage a lot of folks who might then believe, the race is already over so why start at all? He wants to keep the race going on, and that sounds like a very reasonable point of view.
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Showing messages 1 through 4 of 4.

  • Jeremy Jones photo Not winning but ...
    2006-01-06 04:26:05  Jeremy Jones | O'Reilly AuthorO'Reilly Blogger [View]

    The great thing about blogging is that I have people like you responding and helping codify my own thoughts.

    If that is Kevin's (or anyone else's) motivation, then they will get a resounding Amen from me. You've made me really consider the benefit of competition in open source. Aspiring to "be the best" is a noble goal. And competition with the goal of excellence is a noble goal. The thing that I was really discouraging and speaking against was competition for the sake of competition. In my old age (hee hee) I've really gotten sick of a lot of the (needless) division that I see in open source as well as other areas of life.

    Here's what I was getting at: I'm sick of the "Foo" language folks looking at the "Bar" language folks and feeling a sense of disdain because of their "otherness". And then feeling the need to compete with them because they are different.

    But, you are right. Competition is not bad. Trying to be the best is not bad. Actually, the reverse is true. It's good. Compete because you are better. Or because you think you can become better. In the end, excellence-driven competition will promote positive change for the entire community.

    Thanks so much for your post.
    • Not winning but ...
      2006-01-06 11:23:15  webmaven [View]

      "Here's what I was getting at: I'm sick of the "Foo" language folks looking at the "Bar" language folks and feeling a sense of disdain because of their "otherness". And then feeling the need to compete with them because they are different."

      People are tribal. Group cohesion is frequently cemented by defining an 'other' to exclude. This is human nature. Thankfully, as a species, we've (mostly) moved beyond trying to exterminate the 'other'.

      In general, the main way group 'Foo' and group 'Bar' will cooperate will be by ganging up to oppose group 'Baz'. Hence, 'Dynamic languages are more agile', 'Java is the new Cobol', and so on.
  • Sure, winning...
    2006-01-06 01:45:52  webmaven [View]

    I think he just wants to be part of *a* winning team, because he (like most other IT folks I know) doesn't think that anyone will necessarily be *the* winning team.
    • Jeremy Jones photo Sure, winning...
      2006-01-06 04:27:02  Jeremy Jones | O'Reilly AuthorO'Reilly Blogger [View]

      Again, a worthy goal. See my post to nickpicker.
Showing messages 1 through 4 of 4.