Article:		A Look at the Eclipse IDE
Subject:		Fascinating article
Date:		2003-11-15 11:44:18
From:		jeffnailen
Philippe, This is a great and quite useful look at Eclipse and its promising future on the Mac. The more choices we have, the better. First, an open question to Philippe as well as other readers: are there any equivalent efforts—either inside the Eclipse community or elsewhere in the larger Java and Mac communities—that is attempting the same thing regarding Cocoa instead of Carbon? Due to their OO similarities and equal status on the Mac platform there has to be some way of marrying Java and Cocoa beyond what is available today in order to move beyond the Cocoa vs. Java choice for Mac developers. If we could transcend that dichotomy through some sort of open-standards integration of Cocoa and Java development, that old dichotomy would be rightly seen as a false dilemma and Mac developers could develop true multi-platform apps that would also satisfy the most ardent Mac Cocoa purists. Am I just dreaming or is this possible? Second, how does Eclipse compare to Borland's JBuilder for the Mac (beyond the obvious significant price difference)? Any opinions are welcome. Thanks!

Showing messages 1 through 4 of 4.

• Fascinating article
  2003-11-30 23:11:54  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  I also wonder why they choose carbon instead cocoa.
  You said because of the similarity between cocoa and swt,
  then what about swing? It also be thought as a same level,
  but apple implemented swing with cocoa.
  I hope to somedays apple will involve in this and maket a swt for cocoa.
  

• Fascinating article
  2003-11-15 14:33:07  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  Eclipse is too slow, working with other people on a team using various platforms and eclipse causes some headaches when we use Junit, no GUI tools, did I mention slow? I prefer IDEA, JBuilder X, JDeveloper, and/or emacs.
• Fascinating article
  2003-11-16 21:41:09  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  Hmm,
  I don't think this reflects most people's perspective. I think if I read between the lines her e you're most likely using some form of Linux and perhaps one of the non-mainstream releases at that which could be your issue.
  
  Eclipse has made me so productive that I view Java as a scripting language these days.
  
  It has built in support of ant and junit, so I'm not sure what compliant of junit was.
  
  Also now there's the Rich Client Project as a subproject of 3.0, which will make it easier for you to write GUI apps in SWT. Yeah, Swing is better than it was, but it's still way too hard to write good performing applications in it. Thus SWT kicks Swing's ass in that area -- I'm not sure if it's that much easier to write in, but it's a heck of a lot easier to get nicer applications with it. Without SWT, .NET wins hands-down.
  
  Finally you can get a nice J2EE dev enivornment for VERY cheap -- www.myeclipseide.com (only $30 US).
  
  So I think most of the complaining on Eclipse is pedantic and not really constructive.
  
  I use to use Vim (well I still do -- even on Windows), but Eclipse doubles/triples my productivity. Enough said.
  
  Mark
  
• Fascinating article
  2003-11-19 21:13:30  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  I wish I could feel the way you do about Eclipse.
  I downloaded and then checked out the doc, it's out of date, for the previous release.
  
  My problem with Netbeans, is they can't seem to build a .jar file successfully with the tutorial project.
  
  I've just downloaded JDeveloper from Oracle.
  Code completion works. The documentation matches the release. Debugging works. It's free but they also would like you to buy it for $995, to get support. Ouch.
  
  Once an app is loaded swing seems to work fine.
  Are we talking about that long pause between the click and the splash screen, the time Java takes to verify the .jar or class files? Hard to drop security from a Java application.
  My opinion is this is where the rep of Java being slow comes from.