Showing messages 1 through 6 of 6.

• Too much choice ?
  2003-11-13 22:05:57  anonymous2 [View]
  
  
  Isn't that kind of backwards though? I mean, your so called "Joe Punter" wouldn't know what Gnome or KDE are. He would select the defaults. This means that when you log into Red Hat 9, it's Gnome. For SuSE, it's KDE.
  
  Does Joe User know he is using KDE or Gnome? No. In fact, on a default installation of SuSE, you don't have to select your desktop environment.
  
  Also consider that "Joe Punter" can't even install Windows, let alone Linux, and it makes that less of a difference.
  
  Why do these distro's come with Gnome and KDE? Because the majority of people using them want these choices. Also, consider that most distro's now customize Gnome and KDE to the point that they both look and feel the same to a point.
  
  Anyways, Joe Punter isn't going to install Linux anyways. He is going to go to Walmart or Future Shop or CompuSmart and buy a computer. This computer will come with an OS, and he will use this OS. When he has questions, he will call up his friend that "knows computers".
  
  Gnome or KDE options really have nothing to do with Linux adoption.
• Too much choice ?
  2003-11-14 00:09:54  anonymous2 [View]
  
  
  I disagree. But the decision whether Gnome od KDE options matters depends upon where you can expect the fastest Linux adoption to take place: Is this really the Walmart Computer Shopper without any experience or is it the experienced Windows user who is used to tweak things a little bit.
  
  In my opinion, we can expect the Windows users to be the faster adopters because 1.) their adoption is independent from third parties (like Walmart) and 2.) they should be able to deal with Linux usage shortcomings and 3.) they already suffered from Windows shortcomings.
  
  If that's true, then please take a look at inofficial Windows support boards and how they discuss and solve problems. Very often, its as easy as "Install software <xyz> and you can do <ABC>" or "Go Start -> Whatever -> Wherever, and select Option <123>".
  
  Due to the diversity on Linux, similar suggestions in Linux support boards are seldom because often they depend on the distribution and the desktop one uses. This slows down adoption because under certain circumstances, the Linux diversity is too much even for an experienced windows user to deal with.
  
  The only counterexamples are kernel, bash and some GNU tools. Maybe that is also the reason why Linux support in most cases needs to fall back on commandline usage.
  
  However, this does not mean it prevents adoption completly. But next time you find a hardware or software vendor who is unwilling to support Linux, remember that this is partially our own fault as a community.
• Too much choice ?
  2003-11-14 02:35:25  anonymous2 [View]
  
  
  "Due to the diversity on Linux, similar suggestions in Linux support boards are seldom because often they depend on the distribution and the desktop one uses." -- When I made the switch to Mandrake 8.1 from W98 (had messed with RH 6.0 and up before that. Now, I'm a Slackware enthusiast) I didn't go to a SuSE forum or a Debian forum looking for help. I went to a Mandrake site. Pretty much anyone can type "mandrake linux help" into the search field on Google.
  
  "This slows down adoption because under certain circumstances, the Linux diversity is too much even for an experienced windows user to deal with." -- Not true from my experiences. My x-g/f is now happily using Mandrake9.1. She prefers KDE over Gnome, and has discovered that BlackBox is "really neat" (her words, not mine). She is the "typical" Windows power-user. All she still needs from M$ is access to M$Access files for work. So she dual-boots. She was also floored when she saw that there were so many different burning apps than just Nero. Never mind the games. My sister ("Jane Mousemover") was stunned by what can be done from the CLI. WinXP Home was the first OS she ever used, and now she is asking if I can put Linux on her computer (she loved Knoppix). I have installed Mandrake9.1 on two other friends computers. They love it. I was then forced into a tech support role, but they buy beer. It's all good.
  
  "...inofficial Windows support boards and how they discuss and solve problems. Very often, its as easy as "Install software <xyz> and you can do <ABC>" or "Go Start -> Whatever -> Wherever, and select Option <123>"." -- unofficial Linux support boards show how easy it is... "Install software (tar -zxvf filename.tar.gz or rpm -ivh filename.rpm, or, click the .rpm) and you can do <ABC>" or "go to /usr/bin and click on the executable." or "go to the Kmenu (or Gnome menu) -> whatever -> wherever -> option<123>".
  
  "Maybe that is also the reason why Linux support in most cases needs to fall back on commandline usage." -- "fall back" on commandline usage??? The CLI is a FEATURE. If there's a problem with the X Server, being able to "fall back" to the command line is a lifesaver. Booting to runlevel 3 and allowing me to get down and dirty with whatever problem is a "f**king THANK YOU. Here is some money to help support your efforts" type of thing. Do we need to launch the whole GUI world just to check pop3 email? Or to add our little brother as a user? Why wait for KDE/Gnome to launch to burn a cd when 'cdrecord' will do it no prob? Why do Windows users think that typing is a problem? Hell, while the whole world was gobbling up MSDOS, Mac users were laughing. They had a GUI back then. MSDOS users had the dosshell! But now, typing's a Bad Thing. LOL
  
  Linux is not Windows. Treat Linux like Windows, get ready to be frustrated. I get frustrated everytime I (try to) treat Windows like Linux.
  
  Off-topic, I was accused of being a zealot on a previous post in this thread ("Control issues"). Just to clarify, this post is much closer to being a zealot.
  
  And I like it.
• Command line
  2003-11-14 08:48:17  fastluck [View]
  
  
  The command-line rocks. I'm a relative newbie on Linux. But when you get a sucky install (i.e., Fedora Core 1) that tries to install gigs of crap on your minimal 2 GB system, being able to drop down into RPM is cool.
  
  I used to be able to control everything with Windows. Those days are sure over. Even a Windows power-user can't tell what's going on on his own system.
• Too much choice ?
  2003-11-14 08:37:48  anonymous2 [View]
  
  
  Yes, I already expected a zealot commenting my post. ;) Btw, I didn't say options or the command line are bad; just that it slows down adoption, IMHO.
  
  For the rest, go here:
  http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54388
  
  and wake up, please. Not everybody has a Linux zealot at his hands who is able to install and teach the system.

• Too much choice ?
  2003-11-13 10:13:05  anonymous2 [View]
  
  
  I have to agree on that. I am avid Linux user and I have never understood why KDE and GNOME are always packaged with Linux distros.
  
  One thing that I have always liked on the other hand is that you can turn the GUI off at anytime freeing up considerable resources. Very nice feature for a production server. I can't believe MS never thought of this. I also think this is part of the reason our Linux servers constantly out perform our 'Advanced Server'.